His Map, Your Map: Two Different Journeys
Morning friend,
Our CONQUER doors are open. We open our membership twice a year, so if you’ve been waiting to join, now is the time. Click here for more information.
We had hundreds of women attend our workshop last week: Is He Changing or Just Pretending? There were lots of questions, lots of tears, lots of ah ha moments, and great clarity.
Today’s blog question came in before the workshop but reflects a direction many women try to take to get their marriage and man back on track. Let’s look at why this woman’s approach will not give her the results she longs for.
Today’s Question: Is it OK to require your spouse, if they are hoping for reconciliation, to do some things like addiction recovery 12 step programs, Inner child trauma work with family of origin, men’s group work with abuse of behaviors, identifying those, and replacing those with positive behaviors, and seeing a sexual therapist as our relationship has been virtually sexless for 38 years. I feel like some therapist would tell him this is ridiculous and controlling and I need to stay out of his recovery, but there might be others who would tell me. I need to do this to know if he’s serious about change. I don’t know how to tell or trust again. I was hoping these would do that, but do they put me in a position of managing him and keeping tabs and being in a place of fear and more confusion as how will I know what he’s really doing? Is he attending? Is he doing the work? So much confusion.
Answer: Hey sweet sister. You’re so right, lots of confusion here. I’m sorry for what you have lived through for 38 years. I see that you would like to structure your husband’s recovery to make sure he covers every base, but you cannot successfully manage or control his recovery. You already know that.
It’s his recovery. His healing. His work to do, not yours. You have your own work to do.
You stated that he is hoping for reconciliation. What does that mean? Hoping for reconciliation is easy. It doesn’t require any work. It’s hoping you take him back, forgive his sin, and start over. It’s all on you. Do you want a repeat of the last 38 years?
I don’t think you do, that’s why you’re zeroing in on the work he must do to get well. But does he want to get well or just come home? What does he see as his journey to become a healthy, whole man? I don’t read anything about his repentance, his desire to change, his awareness that he must do some hard work to become an honorable and trustworthy man. I see your map for him but not his map for himself. Does that tell you something?
It’s not for me to tell you what’s okay or not okay, but my experience in working in this field for almost 50 years is that mandating someone else to do their work and keeping track of it, exhausts you and never results in the changes you long to see.
Your husband has clearly broken your heart and trust in multiple ways over many years. Does that matter to him? Is he showing you he wants to change and become a healthy godlier man? If so, then what is his plan to get there? For example, if he really wanted to learn to play golf, don’t you think he would figure out how to learn? He’d perhaps hire a coach, regularly go practice hitting balls, watch YouTube videos with pro’s, get a group of men who golf well to mentor and support him. You would not have to figure this out for him. And if you did, it probably tells you he really doesn’t want to learn how to play golf as much as you want him to learn to play golf.
Since these problems have been such long-standing patterns in your relationship, I think a more constructive question to ask yourself is what do you need to heal and get safe – physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, sexually and financially? And, even if he does his own work, will you ever be able to fully trust him again?
Yes, I know, it often feels more empowering to spend your time orchestrating what he must do, rather than turn your attention toward your own healing. But after 38 years of repeat unhealthy/destructive patterns, even if he wants to change, it’s not going to happen easily or quickly. Meanwhile, instead of policing his work, why not invest in doing your own?
As I mentioned, our CONQUER membership is open right now and is a perfect place for you to be supported in community with other Christian women who understand what you’re living with. When you’re tempted to start managing him, they will help you refocus you on your own journey of healing and growth knowing that you’re living with uncertainty whether your husband is going to persevere doing his work. That said, why not get yourself stronger so that if he chooses not to change, you are better prepared.
Friend, have you tried to manage your husband’s changes? I’d love to hear your experience.
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Yes, I have. And after years of minimal effort on his part, and refusal to get counseling with me, I finally left. That is when he finally started to work on things. But as soon as I didn’t conform to his expectations with his minimal progress, he quit completely. His goal was to get me to move back in. His goal should have been to improve his behavior and prove to me that he was changing because his desire was to become a better man.
I can’t believe this. God is so good. This writer could be me but my marriage has been 44 years. I’ve wanted to sign up for the Conquer but I’m in counseling already with an experienced therapist who actually gave me Leslie’s book The Emotionally Destructive Marriage. It helped me see and face the reality of what I’d been dealing with throughout our marriage. My husband has finally admitted that he needs help and is beginning to seek it. All the questions in this blog are mine and I need help navigating this stage of our relationship. We have separated but i don’t trust him and I don’t know how to do this. I’m going to sign up for the Conquer program.
I have tried over and over…..unsuccessfully.
I do not think it is unreasonable to have boundaries for yourself.
I learned that boundaries are something that are for you, not the other person. They are a fence around Your property to protect You! So you can make a request to the other person. And if they choose not to honor that request, that thing you need to know they are serious, then you assert your boundary. Which may be limited access to you, or a separation, or whatever helps you feel safe.
And that is the painful part. When he chooses not to honor my requests and I have to assert my boundary, I have my answer. He is not serious about protecting me or giving me what I need.
So here we are again. It’s painful and exhausting and up to me to protect myself and give myself what I need.
My heart already knew. Because I knew this man. for decades… but I can’t seem to get it through my head, quit hoping bc it makes my heart sick, and move fwd alone.
Several years ago I had a dream where my h was playing chess. He wanted me to play but I wouldn’t. I knew he was always strategizing to win, and me to lose, and that made him ‘happy’. Last week I had a dream where my h and I looked at a pipe coming into the house, that showed some corrosion. We decided that it was a quick fix, we would go to the basement and fix it. When we got downstairs, we saw it was a huge problem that would require a total tearing down and restructuring of the foundation, and there was no way to do it ourselves. It required several professionals.
I love the analogy of learning to play golf. My h will ask, What should I do? If I say, he will ignore me or do the opposite, then say, Well I went to counselling, now are you happy? If I don’t say, he’ll say, Well you didn’t tell me what to do! Or he’ll do a few things, and say, Now are you happy? You see, when we do something for them, it’s out of love FOR THEM, but when they do something for us, it’s out of love FOR THEM. For their comfort, convenience, or even their Schadenfreude. No program or counselling or wifely caring will change that basic broken foundation. They don’t see us. Intimacy is into-me-see, and they are completely incapable of that. And we’ve enabled that for so long that they can’t and absolutely don’t want to even imagine a change. It’s like the old saying, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? We’ve been carrying the whole load!
Watching his frustration since I’ve laid down that load and stopped managing his changes has certainly been interesting. He’s awfully persistent in trying to dump it back on me. He’s alternating between pretending to be better, whining about not knowing what to do, pouting, threatening, DARVO… I sure am glad I have Jesus and a couple of friends!
I’m living this for the past 28 years. H says why can’t I just be happy with him and sometimes the minimal effort he wants to put in. I’ve said I see your effort, and while I appreciate it it is not what I’ve asked for. So now, once in a while I get a partial week or week of minimal effort and he thinks everything is fine. Or if he doesn’t think I’m “back to his normal” or “expect” any more effort: I receive the silent treatment, he stays up late to set off a trigger in me etc. I have so much to learn from CORE and I just joined Conquer. I need to not react so much and understand his bait. Thank you, Connie, for sharing.
I think you want him to change so you don’t have to divorce him. Divorce is scary and expensive and messy. I understand. Some spouses want you to go back to the way things used to…so they too, can go back to the way things used to be. Don’t do it. Don’t go back.
Yes, it takes a long time to get to the point of divorcing him.
It’s so painful to live in our realities, about who they really are. Sometimes it’s easier to not see it so we don’t have to deal w the pain.
Sometimes when we do see it and would prefer to leave, we’re unable to leave for some reason. Maybe health or financial reasons or something else.
That is me. I think my best option is emotionally detaching. A divorce would be easier and more settled, but I’m unable. I’m sure there are many others in the same position. Emotional detachment is hard and I too don’t want to go back.
Kay, that’s it exactly. After 40 years, my husband said to me, “ you were a great wife in the early years”. The early years…when everything was about him: his needs, wants, fears, goals. Mine were always either second or not considered at all. When I thought it was my “ job” to “ keep him happy”, regardless of the emotional, mental, or physical harm to myself.
I’ve invited my husband, for years, into a future of a healthy, balanced, mutual relationship.
He only wants to go back to the “ it’s all about me” state.
He thinks things are ok because I’m not “ complaining “ any more.
I don’t have the energy or time to “ complain “, or try to communicate with him, much less try to be heard or understood, by him, any more.
I’m not trying to “ manage” his emotions or growth any more…even though I know he’d be so much happier if he became emotionally healthier. His behaviors, attitudes, growth, and happiness…or their opposites…are 100% his responsibility.
I don’t need to ask myself, “ is he changing?” Because he insists that he doesn’t need to change or take responsibility for himself.
He sees my changes…my healthier understanding of my God-created self, my rights to my own boundaries, my right to be treated with kindness and respect by someone who says they love me…to him, those are the “ problems”.
But now I’m focused on my own future, and how I can get there in the healthiest way for myself.
I haven’t become the “ walkaway wife” yet…but I’m packing for the trip.
I wrote the question above that Leslie responded to. We are separated and have been for six months. He is going to an abuse coach and a men’s abuse group. He has shown some changes However, after a year and a half I still feel like I would never be able to entertain going back unless this other work has been done. If he doesn’t do work on his problems with having a sexual relationship with me I can’t just have him move back in hoping that that will change. I have to know he’s actually getting that addressed. He really feels He’s doing great work and hard work so he is content with where things are and I also believe that he is working hard but he could work another year and a half with this group and still I would say I’m not ready to come back together without the spiritual work done and the sexual work done, etc. he can say no to my requests but then I have data and can take my next steps now, instead of waiting to see how far he gets. I believe if I don’t do this, he will say in a few months, Can we try this again and at that time I will have to say what are you doing to fix these other issues? He will say I’ve been working with my group and my coach on all this. But I will have no proof. There is no trust whatsoever and I’m trying to establish a way of building trust instead of just watching and waiting. We don’t do weekly dates, We only go to church together and that’s it so how am I going to see change. And I don’t want to Establish more contact with him unless some of these things are being done because then I’m putting more Skin in the game than he is. And that’s the way it’s always been. He wants to Establish 30 minute calls weekly, he wants to set up therapy so we can get guidance on how to do the separation better. If I say yes to these things then aren’t I saying yes to his requests? Can’t I also ask for things that I need? Again I understand he has his free agency and he can say no but then I make my decision of if I’m staying or going and I’ve made my decision that if he says no, I’m going. Then I’m not wasting his time or mine. I think I’m trying to show compassion by telling him now what I need to even consider reconciling. Otherwise in six months, he’ll say can we get back together and I’ll tell him what my requirements are and he will say “why didn’t you tell me that a long time ago I’ve had my ladder on the wrong wall all this time”. Are these not boundaries? I’m sorry I just can’t get my head wrapped around this. I am doing my work. I’ve been doing my work for years. I still have a ton more to do just signed up with conqueror and core. I just need more help understanding why this is not a great idea for both of us. he knows what I need in order to begin the trust process, and he has the ability to say no. I really do want to get real clarity on this because unless I do it, it will treat me up and I will keep feeling like I don’t have a game plan and we are both just spiraling.
This is my story of a 37 year marriage. Now my husband does say he’s changed and wants to do the work. He wants to reconcile eventually, after he feels he’s done his work. I love him and reconciliation sounds good because I’m now 70 years old and don’t want to have to start over. However, after 37 years of not being willing to change, I cannot imagine he is going to be able to change in a year or two. He not only has to reconcile with me, but also my 3 children to whom he was supposed to be a good step father and wasn’t. So there is another layer to repair. In the end, I think too much damage has been done to all of us and reconciliation is not something I can wait for. It’s hopium all over again. I need to move forward, divorce and create a new life for myself as a strong, Godly woman.
Ultimately these men and ouselves frankly should desire to grow and change for themselves or ourselves. If that helps to save a marriage, great! If not, we honor God anyways. It’s about putting God first and becoming a pure vessel for His glory. Amen.
It’s a difficult journey no matter which way we turn or how we choose. It consumes so much of my energy to manage things as they sre , and holding boundaries. Living separately but having some connecting points , like visiting adult children together, gives me the chance to see his progress in change or the lack of it. He has apologized and said thst he wants to be a godly husband but still falls back into manipulation, spending lots of money the way he wants , in the meantime I live in a 5th wheel trailer. My only saving grace this time is knowing Jesus who is my Redeemer and guide . I focus on my own sipritual growth and living out my gift as the leader of a Bible study group of women. Give yourself grace ladies and yes you can ask for what you need.
After almost 35 years of marriage, with 14 of those years spent trying every imaginable option for healing the relationship, I find myself being divorced by him. I begged, cried, screamed, and begged some more for all these 14 years and found that when I actually set a boundary, his response was to leave me. Never did I imagine I would be in this position in this season of my life. I keep praying for a miracle because short of that I am facing being alone at almost 70 years old. It didn’t need to be this way!!! Anyone else feel that deep down? You’re not asking for so much. It’s attainable. But he just doesn’t care enough about any one else but himself!