425 Comments

1. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 7:43 am

   Yes, sexual abuse has been a part of my entire life. From the step father when I was a small child until I left when getting married. During marriage it was very much a part of. Those times that I woke up tied to the bed. I never really felt safe during my life until I left marriage all together. Now I go to a church where I don’t feel safe.

   Part of it now I believe is me. I don’t believe in the complementarian view of marriage. A man being the disciplinarian in the relationship. That is not submission. Submission is voluntary, not mandatory. Men and women in marriage should submit to one another for the other’s good. What is best for the spouse. Is it forcing perversion on the other. Never.

   Once in a while, usually when I am reading a post like this that is still triggering, the horror stories race through my mind. All of the things that I was forced to do or felt like I had to do to keep peace in the house. Sex, for me, no longer feels like a gift from God.

   I was in a small group the other night and had sent a question: women as ministers and elders, why or why not. Wow, was that a can of worms. It went on so many rabbit trails. This group in no way thinks a woman should ever preach, yet we send many young women on the missions field. Go figure. Some of these missionaries go into tribes, translate to their languages, plant a church and then call in a man to preach and then submit to his authority. What authority? She did all of the work.

   Submit to the church who says that I am twisting scripture for my own way of thinking. I believe they are the ones that are selecting scripture and leaving out others to have their own manly limited views. I have heard a sermon or 2 that said No, No to porn and not forcing a woman to do what she feels is not right, with a Snidely Whiplash grin on the face. But no real repercussions discussed for doing so. No talk of repentance to God of your spouse for committing these sins.

   I spoke up in the meeting and was shot down each time. Women did not speak up. When I said that we choose to repent and serve God and was told no, God makes that decision, I believe that was about the last straw. They took away my Jesus given free will. What next, the pastor and elders decide whether or not I am saved or not?

   I know I have gotten on a rant here and in and out of topic. I have far too many things going on in my head and heart.

   Reply
   • tammi on March 25, 2015 at 3:25 pm

     Rant away! Much to think about and I thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

     Reply
     • callie on August 20, 2016 at 3:58 pm

       Tammi, His father me and others just lost our case against my husband yesterday standing in front of a state judge. I had to remove my charges of marital sexual misconduct, then to the federal court. Where over 40 people had to stand there and swear to the judge we would never again impede my husbands civil rights again. If any time we do and the federal courts agree we did we can serve 50 years under the agreement to stay out of prison.

       The charges arrayed against me, his father and many of our friends were conspiracy to deny civil rights, through the use of coercive and force means including armed intimidation. Conspiracy to maintain an indentured servant with the same methods.

       It started as a way to get him to not take his seniority rights until the dust settled were he worked, under his union contract he had, his Seniority continued until he obtained a honorable discharge from the navy, then he had 30 days to go back and reinstate with full seniority from the day he hired in in 1976.

       He came back with more than 60 percent of the workforce of seventy five hundred people, In his department it was close to 90 percent that left five in the department that had more than him. It wasn’t three days home him and his father were into it the first day about taking the 30 days to go back. He had wanted my husband to take the reenlistment bonus of 20000. the offer of a bump to E6 and a guarantee to chief in two years, and a instrutors position in either Memphis teaching basic and advanced digital or Trident Tra Fac in Bremerton Washington. or basic Sub school in Groton CT. He had his pick, He decided he was tired after being in isolated duty in both the Army and Navy. He was leary that’s what would happen again. Get to the new command and suddenly the Needs of the Navy would get him isolated again. It was a situation he was not wanted to push family members of other friends of his fathers down the seniority list in the main employer in the city. There were 157 people returning from military service that could do this over the next six months.

       I was asked if there was any kind of pressure or control I could use to get my husband to not use something called seniority rights. I said at first I did not think so or even want to. His father sat me across the table a month before my husbands return, Said a returning sailor after being under water and refits and schools in other parts of the country would want only one thing. After not even having a wedding night due to orders. He told me just for two years please don’t even offer sex until the dust settled from his return. He said he should just stay in the Military and go for 30, He had two other services he could try if he was tired of the navy, and I could convince him some how to go back in making sex conditional on that or wait two years more, and not make waves in the plant.

       The first day it took his mother to beg him to do as his father wanted and she said there’s always tomorrow to get his life started with me but for now just do as his father wanted or she would not hear the end of it. I listened to this through a closed door after being instructed to stay out of sight the first week. His mother came in and demanded to know why I had not greeted him at 400 am that morning. I told her my father in law her husband had instructed me to stay out of sight. I went for a walk that after noon and when I returned I could tell they had had a major fight, His father told me never to tell her anything about what had to be with my husband. The next morning an hour after my husband came home after being put on his job at 3:30 the after noon before. His father was telling him he did not have the time to deal with me and do a home search. Hit the bricks and find a place maybe after getting moved in and arranged I could get some time with him.

       The next thing was WW3 was going down in his fathers living room my husband had grabbed his fathers shirt front, after telling my husband he would do as he was told and shut up, as far as he was concerned rights were fore those that deserved them and my husband missed by a long shot. I heard a gurgle next, My husband was yelling if he had to tear bulkheads out he was going to see me, Get some breakfast since the last meal he had was on the boat and then take both of us home hunting. and he would stay out of his way or else. My first sight of my husband I think terrified me to this day. He had his father pinned against the ceiling telling him he was on his last nerve. and if he did not get off he would die where he was at. I was tugging his tshirt sleve to get his father thrown to the floor. The Next day was worse after getting the home we chose arranged for and the furniture arranged to deliver from storage the next day at military relocation. Things were bad when we went in to his father screaming not back three days and he was causing trouble that he needed to get straight. This time it was a pretty 19 year old blond crying on his fathers shoulder with her mother at the table. My husband put his shift preference in after getting the Guardianship the state assigned my husband the night before finding out about my bi polar illness. The girl had only six months seniority and under the contract she was to go to 2nd shift. His father was screaming he was not ruining this little girls life by bumping her. T told my husband he was not demonstrating he could give up what he wanted enough to have any possibility of being a father. I told him for 2 years if he could just not cause trouble with seniority usage stay put for every ones good. I two years I would consider starting a sex life with him. That’s the Day his war with the world started, any cooperation he was blackmailed into and eventually force with firearms. I continued sex denial to try and obtain any form of agreement which was never obtained. In 2001 He had a brain tumor removed and was supposed to get 60 days recovery , but his father and others. felt after six days if he could stand he could do at work and what was required. He was pulled off his sleeping mat with his arms twisted behind his back taken to work telling me to call federal authorities for illegal abduction. the way the law worked it had to have 2 witnesses, I felt keeping things from getting to that point was better and somehow I could start to get him some time off, vacations, I was working on a vacation in January to Texas that January after the hell raised about him working the milinial Vacation to Bavaria the year before while he stayed and built a parts bank for assembly. I felt it was a starting point any way, Then HE took a job bid that he was supposed to let go to privileged, connected people at work. He actually went to the national union and had it shoved down the communities throat that there was not a such thing as a prestige position held specially in the union, Seniority rules, This actualy had a result that there were other people in other positions that they held a job under this ideal and other seniority people pushed those with family , socitial and political influence back to hated positions and the older seniority took the position they wanted, again with out regards for need.

       I had gone to my husband after his father went away from our house demanding and saying if he took this new job by bid. Him and his friends would not give one hoot if he was hurt. I had even secured the promise from them that if he backed down from this job it was the last time.

       He would have to give up on a holiday, he could take a bid in the next round of bids in 2 weeks. just not for that particular position, because the intention was friends of the young man was going to work with him.

       I went to my husband , hat in hand, I even kneeled in front of him and swore, that if he backed down this last time he was getting the sex life he wanted, He would even get to take holidays weekends and that vacations he wanted, he could even go to Ireland with me that I had already started saving for in 2003.

       He looked at me and asked if it was ok with my bot friend, and his p*** father if I slept and got a child by my husband. If he was not good enough for his tramp wife and community girlfriend why was he good enough to associate with if he just backed off some sliver spoon in his mouth he was born with. He said I was a liar, and if I had even the honor of a good tramp, I would step in front of a semi and let him out from under the Guardianship. I told him that he was going against the court order placed in 1987, An he smiled and said I don’t think it applies any longer because his fathers friend on the bench was being removed from the bench That same day Conservation officers walked into that court room, Cuffed and hauled the judge out of his court with charges of, Malfesance, Evidence tampering, using illicit drugs, My husband took that new position the next Monday.

       There was nothing we could do legally any longer, that could hold my husband in check. They ruined a man for an inadvertent disclosure of information. His fathers friends felt that my husband needed a lesson in social position and the four men wanting that department came over the next morning. My husband left me with my ankle broken after kicking the front door in on top of me. The four men that followed him onto the porch intending to get him into the plant to remove his bid even if they had to carry him. They jumped my husband after he asked who was whos wife, then said get off his porch or die where they stood, I saw the most terrifying display of weaponless combat arts. We had all forgoten he was a 3rd dan black belt, That if somebody was with in arms length he can destroy them. He left me that morning with a broken ankle as I said, those four there, he left in much worse shape dying on our front porch. To many witness’s said self defense, His father showed up crying was a stinking job worth nearly killing four men and showing his defiance to society and what he thought of them. My husbands answer was apparently they were willing to give there lives and bodies to a stupid cause.

       His father slapped my husband and in turn he was laid out at an officers feet. My husband standing over him telling him he told him what would happen if him or any one else laid their hands on him. That’s when everyone became very friegtened and decided firearm intimidation was needed. they were not nice about it either the next seven years. Then my husband did not care about even his own continued existence, He started daring them to use them even going so far as using their own weapons against them. He’s hurt so many in persuit of his rights. I guess I got off lucky through the decades getting one broken ankle and a dislocated shoulder until he decided I was no longer going to refuse him in 2013. I had begged him after his return from three years physical rehab, and two weeks in a stress center. I was going to an invitation only dinner with his mother, father and his fathers best friend when the center returned him home that evening, I was begging for a reset. to 28 years before, Just two years to get him worked into society and do it right this time.

       Start the entry into traditions that had formed an not leave any one angry, We could finally arrange a vacation that would not be in some ones way. I handed him 100 begged him to pick a place to meet in 4 hours and we could get his grievances in the open and slowly work through what was allowed now he was crippled. He blew his top. Told me we allowed him nothing and since I assisted in stealing thirty one years of his life he was taking restitution as of that evening starting with me. I was crying it was to late to change plans that evening I had promised. He said well he guessed that they will have to get used to broken promises just as he had. It was either him I was going with that evening or it was nobody,

       I was trying to work my way to the door since he was in front of the phone in my heels I did not make two steps before he ripped every stich off me telling me, that for once it was going to be him that came first. He was not taking any no that evening. 45 minutes latter in his rage and anger, I got off the floor, hurt, sore and thinking what had I really done to deserve this, all he had been denied for 31 years was sex, and time off his job until 2009 when MRSA set into his spine. It was just he was so depressed he compromised his immune system.

       I should say how my shoulder was dislocated by him. After several men were badly hurt in 2008 forcing him in to work on two holidays he had turned down in the foremans canvas for him to work. . There were needs that over shadowed his as usual. He was forcing a girl with decades less seniority to work that down week of Christmas. it was her first married. Even though my husband and I had never spent a Thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Years as husband and wife together it was felt that our wedding was so far in the past it no longer made any difference we could wait till seventy. We could start a life with what ever was left. HE was planning on going to Europe with me in 2009, He trained and worked right next to a younger man with 2 years seniority, He only had ten days vacation time coming. my husband had five weeks coming with 34 years

       Since 1987 his father and I had tried to get him to take vacations from the Monday after the Christmas shut down to valintines day. The only time he was not to take that was after the millinial celebrations, Because we were just getting back from the celebrations in Bavaria, he had worked through them building a parts bank. I can tell you the day before Christmas when we left what I got for a Christmas gift that year was filthy . first the foulest chewing out we ever received and he went out and gathers the leavings of a dog out of the front yard and handed to me saying that’s all I desrerved. His father got some smeared on his front window over that years shutdown and vacation a note on his widow saying tyrant. His Neighbors said they were trying to stop him on Christmas eve after a sheriffs deputy the day we left escorted him in when he was going to go with me to Bavaria saying he was offered the down week, by court order he was required to go to work. It took cuffs to get him there and nearly a jail term when he ran over the deputy trying to not go to work it took four to get him through the gate. I was so Embarassed when I opened my gift from him that year and it turned out to be dog do. His mother asked what he was supposed to get that year . I said when I got home on his birthday in 2001 I was going to give him something for both his birthday that day I just did not know witch book he wanted this year. she said how about getting off his back and leaving, as the perfect gift. Her and his father had another furious fight over not letting my husband have his rights. This one ending in a hotel room in Munich his father had a large lump on his forehead from some thing she had thrown at him.

       The next month My husband was notified the court order was rescinded. after new years 2001 it was glaringly obvious the judge had used his position to conduct a vendetta on behalf of his father and others against him. After 15 years in prison he is not wanted by his family. He is leaving the state to go to a home in Arkansas.

       I feel so sorry for him for developing a habit and my husband and several others found out how to hurt him with it.

       I have been talking to my mother about what she can help me with if I did decide to get out of the revenge my husband is getting. The main problem I have Is with my bi polar I can’t have my son born DEC 8th 2013. The result of his forcing me in 2013. unwilling to even try any longer to negotiate any thing in life He had told both me and his father in a TSA office in 2009, that he was done trying negotiate. The next interference if we lived he would be surprised. He had already thrown me across that office yanking my shoulder bag getting the cancelation check I was holding till the 30th of December. His father tried to be fair in the canceling of the reservations to my husband. Out of pocket he made up the 634 dollar cancellation fee. The same day I started the reservation process to get 5 week Rental and flight to ST Croix. We were to fly out on January the second 2010, for 5 weeks A jeep and bikes was also included. I envisioned going to his workgate on Christmas day and instead of the usual ten he received for a gift with the turkey sandwiches at the gate I would give him those reservations instead of the ten for his Christmas and birthday gift. His father and I went in pain on the orient express trip. He took my cash the check and was going to tear up my boarding pass. My arm was hanging when I heard him say where us his passport, his father said its in his pocket, he could get it from TSA after we were gone he just better stop being angry over being made to work again, he said just fid some way to be happy with it TSA and Everyone else heard the commotion in that office when I hit the wall His steward, union Chaplin a friend and four TSA officers had to pry my husbands fingers off his fathers thriooat as he ripped his pockets out getting his passport He said He was going to go to Ohare Get the direct flight and make our life hell at every stop across Europe. The man that worked next to him was going the two weeks instead because he just was married to a girl 4 months gone. everyone arrived home 2 weeks later. To no pickup in my husbands suburban. We arrived at his fathers to a deputy saying this stank but there was a warrant to arrest me and his father upon our return for theft. It had been filed by my husband. if I did not turn over that check signed and counter signed to release by his father I would have served 10 years If the restitution for the cancelation had not been made I would not have served just 2 months in county. I finally was able to talk to my husband after labor day 2009. four months after the day we left for Europe, Huis steward had told his father and myself we better expect he was home for Christmas new years and thanksgiving that year because his card would be locked out of getting in. His New steward and Commiteeman were getting him off his job for an hour His chaplin came in and told his father and me we were the worst scum he knew. His father asked why we just tried to get him to be a man and do for others, My husband came in wearing a radio. I asked what happened to the Newly wed I had not seen him passing his Repair parts crib. My husband said check hardees down the road, burger king or micky ds. He said he might have a job there, Him and other high seniority had the young man terminated for absence without vacation or personel time. he handed me the Keys to the house and said I hope the life of a convict was as nice as the last 28 years of servitude had been for him. We left after he did with a bad taste in that talk left, His steward said He was in and out of the ER the last three months and the abdominal pain could not be figured out why except for some reason his bowels were not moving.

       The next time I even saw him was October 24. My mother in law, sister in law and myself watched them Everyone in sealed containment suits except my unconscious husband as they wheeled him into an OR the next 21 hours. His heart stopped 2 times in that surgery, His spine was fused. They were using the strongest antibiotic available. Vancomiasin. plugged directly into his chest by a port. Morphine was also used and after waking up from the induced coma he was in. He discovered he had no nerve impulse to his legs after he stood up to wake them, and they simply folded up, The vacation plans turned into a retirement, no party, no fanfare, a gold watch just came after seven year. Just his foreman saying he hoped to god he did not hold grudges after seeing his timekeeping.
       Foremans Notes. all proving abuse on the job and off.

       28 years with six days allowed off by his father and others and they felt that the Recovery from a brain tumor surgery in 2001 that six days was to long.

       After two more surgery’s and three strokes and three years of rehab. He came home unexpectedly walking with a cane.. Its been verified repeatedly that he does not have any feeling below is upper legs.

       I had started an affair with an old boyfriend the year before. I never imagined my husband could still have sex, or even be a factor in life, he was going to be stuck in a wheel chair. He did not take but a week to show his anger. I spent a night for one last time with my Boyfriend, when he trapped us in the drive. I asked to go in and talk which was agree to since he expected I was leaving with him.

       He had my luggage packed, He had the guardianship ready to sign as assuming and my boyfriend thought to sweep his cane and call him a pathetic looser, It nearly cost my Boyfriend his life with the cane hitting him like a spear in the side of his head then a terrible beating followed. Everytime my AP sat up. My husband slammed a fist into him yelling who’s pathetic now. That’s how the police found him when they arrived, The next two weeks were one visit at a stress center. and after the talk with the ward doctor his father steamed out to were my husband and mother were sitting in the day room. His father started yelling boo hoo you did not get a day off in 28 years until he went home from rehab. boo hoo your wife doesn’t allow sex.. Boo hoo and now you expect us to treat you right, He said until he stopped crying forget equal treatment he was to shut up and do as he was told.

       I was getting ready to go to this dinner the next week when a taxi delivered him home, HE was not going to discuss any thing with us. He has not discuss Any thing to try and keep the peace with any one, If he’s paying for a vacation he’s going to be on it to. His father wanted me to loan his best friend the price of a berth on a cruise in 2015. My husband said was I the supplier of the money for it I had to say no he was.

       He said then forget it and made a double berth, His dad was so angry he would invite himself, after I tried one time for a compromise of please this was the last tri year vacation for his mother and father, don’t cause trouble, by being inflexible, I said I would talk myself blue for 2018s Hawaii vacation and He could go up to high range Spend the two weeks there and Leave Ray with my mother Our then just over one year old. When I came back we could talk over including him in three years how we were going to achieve this without rancor that would happen in 2015, He took every right I had to the accounts away, pulled the loan I was going to send his fathers friend and announced he was still going this time.
       The night he forced me to miss that dinner in 2013, He had thrown his fathers best friend off the porch face first into the drive. I was sitting on the bed in a dressing gown, crying and trying to think how it came to his raping me. I was thinking in 4 hours we could have had an agreement that night to go in baby steps, I was also trying to think why he was so anxious to be arrested and bought to court. he had broken a promis made before our wedding and coppied and read 31 years of my journals and scanned them off, Three lawyers have tried to get them considered as in admissible in court because of them incriminating myself and many others in what we are going through now. Every time its failed.

       When I married him in 1982 I never wanted any one to be hurt or denied a life I wanted a family and a life of love and peace. Instead within 4 years something went badly wrong, and I could not stop it.

       My husband was not going to back off any thing and now we find that the force that was used had a terrible price. Those that held weapons on him werer qambused in many cases and I know of one that lost his right hand because he would not turn his weapons over to be destroyed by my husband, In front of his wife and daughter he said he second he got on of his guns he was going to kill my husband for his insolence, My husband had used a machinists hammer to break ribs and an arm already but he said then he would never have the ability to aim and fire a weapon That poor mans right hand nd arm up to he elbow was shattered to the point they had to amputate it. Things had been so out of control for so long I don’t think they will ever get into control. My husband and I had come back to sell our house and repair it and get it ready for new owners as well as get the last of everything moved the 1200 miles west to where we lived now.

       My mother was at where we lived with our five month old, First it was the Memorial day cookout. His father offered 200 to go any where and stay away until midnight, All my husband said my house. my food my equipment go to hell. One of the traditions was after dinner drinks at the club. His father gave his friend a reservation ticket to his friend with my name also. It was instant battle mode for my husband, I was crying just a couple of drinks then home nothing was going to happen by it but he made the friend drop the ticket in his hand and run for his life. His father said He was tired of his bad manners and slapped his son. My husband was not hurt bad but he said you were told what would happen if you lay your hands on him ever in 1972. his father got a full fist backhand across our kitchen. His jaw was broken this time and he grabbed my arm and said he was the only one I was going to be with unless I disappeared out of all parts of his and our sons life, I got in the car as he shooed everyone out and locked the house and we got to the club first, his father and others milled around trying to figure out what to do now.

       The door bouncer was waiting AND STOPED MY HUSBAND ABND HIS CANE FROM GOING IN. My husband let the bouncer push him back, he knew some how he had been offered 100 to keep my husband from going in, my husband let him push until both were on a public sidewalk then one more push and my husband had his knee in his back his head was stretched back with his pony tail in my husbands hand. The bouncer said he was now a dead man when he was allowed up Several police officers and me were saying please no more I said lets go home. My husband said no he had rights, And said he believed the bouncer and in front of his mother, sister, brother father and all our friends smashed the bouncers face into the pavement. The club manager finally said just go in A bottle was on the house. and the police called an ambulance knowing the castle doctrine was again in force.

       Last Christmas I was just trying to keep the tension down my husband was at home the first Christmas in 33 years. I had guests coming the 1200 miles. There were many anamosities between my husband and them. His father this time offered 4000 to go any where he wanted, Suggested going up to high range and wintering there like he had the year before. Any where as long as he was not home. My husband told him to shove it again, Thanks giving was not the nicest day. His father prtended he owned our home and had my husband thrown in jail for disturbing the peace. The judge that day asked my husband why he had refused to leave our house at his fathers request. My husband presented the title in his name and his lawyer presented a writ of habeus corpus on the grounds of false arrest. The deputy was told off by the sheriff here. On Christmas day I was thinking just keep the peace somehow and I put my husbands first Christmas dinner in 33 years together I told him to eat in the pole barn since he did not even own a suit like everyone else there. If he wanted more I said I would get it for him at the back door. He hit me in the face with the plate, yelling he was not some hand looking for a handout from the massas lady. it was his house, his table and his food he had supplied. The next thing I know is fists were flying I was running to clean up crying again. I finally heard things settle with his father saying he could be shot if he did not calm down. I saw him hit followed by his Coat , stetson and gloves with don’t come back before he’s told. His mother came in as I cleaned up and asked where he kept his shotgun and 30 30. I watched the next second as the rifle went into its saddle holster on his horse Bart. Along with his grandfathers lariate.

       Before I could get to the door to call my husband back the horse, and my husband broke the front door and first the lasso went around his fathers neck and Bart tightened. That 30 30 looks like you can drive down the hole when its turned your way. One of the men that produced a firearm was told go ahead Be stupid if he wanted to collect his brains off the wall if he touched his pistol. I lost most my friends Christmas night when they left hungry as well as his father. His mother seemed to shrink by half that evening. Even she no longer had any influence for peace.

       Last month was her memorial service. My husbands brother told him the time of the service. His sister said she set up a later time for a private service for my husband, The stationed a family friend they thought could stop my husband if he appeared outside. HE put his hand on my husbands chest telling him to come back in an hour. My husband said I am going in now The next thing I saw was the man was on his knees with his arm broken in three places and my husband slammed him off brick walls and concrete steps. He was gone by the time of internment in a hospital, His sister said why did he target him like that, when he just could have waited and let the Service happen in peace.

       I just cry all the time now hopping nobody crosses him. HE will not forgive any thing, If I leave I will never see my son again.. I wont try and say no to my husband now, I know that it will do nothing to change his mind once made up. I can only beg others not to interfere.

       Reply
   • Mary on June 9, 2015 at 3:04 pm

     Thank you sisters for speaking out about your experiences – I’ve had similar, plus similar ignorings and condecensions from church leadership who I turned to for help in my desperation as I felt I was going mad. Not to mention an unasked for deliberate kiss from an elder after a Bible study – goodness knows what his motives were, but I was not allowed to ask or have my truth validated by leadership who closed ranks and made me feel unredeemable. They could hostilise me out of their church but God will never eject me …”Those who come to Me I will in no way cast out”. God’s salvation and love and Heaven are not the same as what is represented by “His representatives”……. God is faithful and He will do it (1Thess.5). In hindsight I now believe they were out of their depth and reacted like the Pharisees wanting to stone the woman caught in adultery. Saying one thing and doing another. Big learning curve to mature my soul – nothing gets wasted in God’s economy, Praise Him!

     Reply
   • Tom on June 10, 2015 at 12:40 pm

     Hi Brenda,

     My hart goes out to you.What has happen to you is inexcusable. No man should ever force a women into having sex with them. I think Your problem with women being in submission to men comes from a distorted view of what the bible says.

     Yes the bible does say that a women is to be in submission to be in submission to her husband. But the problem is that people forget that the bible says the husband is to love his wife as Jesus loves the church. So the picture we get here isn’t the husband is a 5 star general n the wife is a lowly buck private n everything is yes sir no sir right away sir. It’s to mirror Christ relationship with the church. So in order to figure out how a husband is to love his wife we must ask how did Jesus love the church? And the answer to that question is sacrificially. So a husband is to love his wife sacrificially. In order words put her needs ahead of his own & be willing to die for her. Now do you have a problem with submitting to Jesus & obeying him & being in submission to Jesus? If the answer is no then I’d like to ask you why not. I’m willing to bet the answer is because he loves me n only wants the best for me. I’m willing to bet if you found a man like that your problem with being in submission to a man would go away. .

     I’d challenge you to read Ephesians 5:21-33. Many pastors n church leaders read this passage & they place to focus on the wife. But if we read the passage carefully we see Paul places the focus on the husband not the wife.And we know this by the fact that Paul summarize his instructions in verse 33. And who does he address first? The husband. So clearly the focus needs to be on the husband. And the fact that your husband forces you to do things against your free will is proof positive that he doesn’t love you as Christ loves the church. Because Christ would never force the church to do things against their free will. And your church is doing a great disservice not only to you but to your ex husband in allowing him to get away with his sin. For a husband not to love his wife as christ loves the church is a great sin & one that needs to be confronted. . & he needs to repent of that sin. Nobody has the right to make you do things your not comfortable with. I challenge you to pray to God that he would send to you a man who will love you as Christ loves the church. And wait till he comes along. I will pray that this will happen to you & that God will heal your wounded heart. God bless

     Tom

     Reply
     • David on June 17, 2015 at 11:57 am

       “No man should ever force a women into having sex with them. ” but when the wife doesn’t get enough she gets upset, so can’t win. Been waiting and hoping for my wife and I to live together again but many discourage me that (mainly women BTW) and after read all these comments no longer wish to stay for my wife

       Reply
       • Calli on July 26, 2015 at 7:54 pm

         February two years ago my husband did not feel the way you do about forcing me into sex with him, Due to considerations and cooperation his father and the society we lived in wanted from my husband I kept my husband sexless for 31 years.
         Then he started getting angry about the way he was being forced to give up seniority rights for the benefit of those that were considered in more need of vacation times, holidays, weekends, jobs, and shifts than my husband was. His father, his fathers friends and several of my friends my age that I had made when I arrived expressed the absolute need that my husbands wants had to be totally controlled or he could disrupt so many lives, his father said he was only one person, why should his wants and needs come before many peoples need, 31 years latter my husband came home from rehab. He discovered how I had kept my own sexual needs in check due to my bi polar illness, I was in an affair, He was put into a stress center for 2 weeks after. he discovered me in it. The night he came home from the center he came home with no thought of negotiation that night, first he told me what we had stolen from his life, then he told me that I was not going to a political fund raiser5 that evening with his mother father and his fathers best friend, he really did not care what promises were made, I owed 31 years of them to him for his putting a roof over my head, cloths on my back. food on my table, and provided the transportation I needed as well as my medical. He then asked what I had provided in the marriage I said I cooked the meals, and he said when I said he got the sandwiches every holiday from what I cooked.
         He said as he remembered he would come home, take a shower at 4 am or noon go to bed and then get up and fix his own meal as his cloths dried in the wash, I was usually out with my social groups when he went to work at 3 pm he said was 2 sandwiches what you considered cooking for me on the holidays, because that was not cooking for him. just using his pay to make sure everyone else got a nice meal.
         I tried a negotiation with him and handed him a 100.00 bill and told him he could pick a place to meet after the event I was going to that evening and we would get everyone that needed to be there to come and hear his grievence’s which after 31 years were many. Many dealing with his denied sex life, and the times off we were willing to allow that he had considered trash offering for the time of the year we wanted him to take his vacation. He said gee I get a 100, this is the most folding money I have seen since we married, he asked if I was trying to bribe him with his own pay. I tried running for the door to find help and he ripped my dress of telling me that he had paid for it he was the only one that I was going to be with wearing it with so now I would go to the curb in what I deserved. nothing,
         My husband did not give me a choice with me begging that it had been before our wedding 31 years before since he had been with a woman couldn’t we just slow down and talk the way he was going to go with this.
         I still don’t understand why my husband the last two years won’t even try and talk things through. It would not have ended up with me raped, his fathers neck broken and several of our other friends hurt badly and many law suits flying, about civil rights violations commited against my husband. and nobody in any way happy except my husband who feels the last 33 years were abuse on our part. I will say this was not what was meant to happen in 1985. He just felt we controlled his life to the point he was a slave.

         Reply
   • Sandra Anderson on February 7, 2016 at 2:15 pm

     I can relate to your comments, dear Brenda, because my former church has similar belief. I finally had to leave and find another church after my divorce because the pastor’s wife said they neither condone or celebrate divorce. Ironically, the ladies in my apartment complex gave me a little surprise party when I returned from the courthouse, knowing how relieved I was to finally be released from 57 years of abuse (and one of them posted photos on Facebook that the ladies of my former church saw — NO Likes!).
     Brenda, you need to find a more loving church, as I did. I’ve joined and teach Sunday School and will be leading a ladies Bible study on prayer. I’m praising God for His love, joy and peace, and the freedom to serve Him as never before. Praying for you!

     Reply
     • cally on December 24, 2016 at 10:21 pm

       In 2003 there was another mean spirited incident with my husband over a refused Criristmas down week. Yje seniority that was going to be forced to work that week was our church deacon. When the foreman called my husband into his office and told him the deacon had church responsibilities so the there for my husband was going to have to work 23 christmas since our wedding In a row 24 years after his return from the navy he had worked 256 consecutive holidays, and resented them as much as not getting vacations and sex as he wanted..

       Every time he was forced to take another holiday for work another vacation slot he was approved for. This time my husband wanted the deacons head. The only real hobby my husband had was 35 mm photography something he could do to and from his job. One day that summer the deacon left early. I had told my husband his wife was going to the church conference in Nashville. on my husbands way home he spotted the deacon going into a local motel with another woman. My husbands revenge was to leave the prints on her chair Christmas morning. she4 left for her fathers in El Passo by the new year with their three children. This revenge actualy caused the death of our by that time ex deacon . He pulled up in front of the church in 2005 and put a slug gun between his knees and his chin covering the muzzle as he pushed the trigger. All because my husband was resentfull .about working the last 23 years with six days off in that time around a surgery. his father told him many times he would get leave if he went back to the military. For my part in raking society;. and his fathers side I was hurt several times the first when I had bolted him out at 4 am to go remove a job bid I ended up under the door with a broken ankle after he kicked it in. Then for cancelling his orient express vacation in 2009 without his permission I was thrown across an office to retrieve the cancelation check I was holding until January. He also had to be stopped from strangling his father to death getting his passport back.

       Three years latter he walks in the door after a two week stay in a stress center and tells me we did not allow him a dam thing. From the on he was the final judge and arbiter. and he did not care who or what I had promised that night he came before everything. After that pronoucment I knew I better run I got 2 steps and the dress I was wearing was shredded. I also found he was not letting me say no to sex.

       Reply
   • Patsy on September 7, 2016 at 4:37 pm

     Thanks, Brenda for sharing. Thanks and Glory to God for contuining
     to love and comfort us.

     Reply
2. HisEzer on March 25, 2015 at 8:02 am

   Yes. This is my story, too. Church believed husband’s word over mine. They enabled the destruction of our marriage. Husband continues on in self-delusion…

   Reply
3. Survivor on March 25, 2015 at 8:50 am

   Yes, it has been a part of my marriage. And sadly, my experience at church was very similar to the woman who shared her story. I vacillate between anger and extreme sadness at how churches (do not) handle these things when women ask for help. Sexual abuse in marriage is really difficult to comprehend/identify as we are so accustomed to believing that it’s what we are supposed to do–after all we are married!!! And we don’t know the intimate details of someone else’s marriage relationship, so we have nothing for comparison. I am wondering: Would it be possible to compile a list of behaviors that would constitute sexual abuse in marriage? I feel that having something like this would have helped me to identify what was happening sooner. As it was, I was extremely uncomfortable with what was happening, and when I said “no more!” I wrestled with a lot of feelings of guilt and fear because I believed that I was ‘depriving my husband’ and should just learn to be ok with what he was asking. Some things were so subtle and manipulative that it was really difficult to sort out and I had no one to support me and tell me that I did not need to accept such treatment. It was humiliating to even attempt to describe to someone what I was experiencing and feeling as a result of the experience…….

   Reply
   • Allie on April 27, 2015 at 7:19 pm

     I have been there too. Sexual abuse doesn’t always have to be violent. My husband would coerce me into having sex, all the while I was hoping and thinking I would receive love, but after it started, he would become abusive. There’s a lot more to sexual abuse. But it’s so good that someone has the courage to write about it.

     Reply
   • Sonya on October 25, 2015 at 12:55 am

     Dear postee;
     I too wish there was a clear list of what constitutes sexual abuse in a marriage. There is one clear abomination in the word regarding sodomy. Sadly we live in a society that thinks it’s ok. Also it runs rampid in most porn so men think it’s a normal part of the marriage bed. When I went to my church and my closest friends they all condemned me and went on about what a good man my husband is and how much he does for the church, community and for me. They said I was sinning by not having enough faith, prayer and meekness to believe God to change him if I were a better and rite Christain woman. None cared the emotional paral I’ve been under for over twenty yrs. in which I have dealt with his infidelity, porn and sex addiction. It’s only been the past several years his actions against me has escalated. I have stood my ground with the porn and adultery but the latter I’m tired of fighting; now I’m ready to leave the marriage. The only reason I have stayed as long as I have has been for our children. He has never been abusive toward any of them. He’s a good father and I haven’t wanted to destroy my children’s lives.

     Reply
     • Jessica on November 29, 2015 at 4:43 pm

       I found this information on the more subtle signs of sexual abuse in marriage helpful and sadly true in my situation. It appears to be from a reputable resource for abuse prevention in the UK.

       http://searchwarp.com/swa727800-Controlling-Spouse-5-Subtle-Communication-Patterns-Of-Spousal-Sexual-Abuse.htm

       Reply
       • Carla on December 21, 2016 at 1:17 pm

         Excellent article! Very affirming, I have felt “crazy”, not trusting my feelings about these things and not having found anyplace they were labeled “abuse”..Thank you, Jessica!

         Reply
     • callie on July 4, 2016 at 11:11 am

       In 2003 my husband was forced to work the holiday down week for the 22 consecutive time since we married. My church Deacon claimed religious need, He thought he was helping others by staying till the last second on the 23 of December 2003. letting the foreman let everyone else off early and leaving my husband as the lead receiver before the holiday week. When the foreman walked out with his steward telling my husband. That he had to work the next ten day instead of taking them off like he had planed.

       I tried to smooth the fact he had had only six days off since we married in 1981, I said he was being the better man. one day he would have something in return for the times he had to give for others the last 22 years, It made him a great person. He said BS, It made him the chump of the century in 2 centuries. I asked him if there was any way he would consider taking the four weeks after the second of January 2003. as his vacation I said it would be hard with me leaving for Ireland at the end of June to afford a time off and keep building the savings when he said he was going on that trip or I was not. since it was his pay supplying the trip . We actually had to stop him from going in a jury trial to let me have the funds and the order was he stayed and worked.

       But that Christmas eve he left for work at six am the holiday shifts were 16 hours. but he did not get home until almost 130 am Christmas morning, He got off his mat on Christmas morning a 5, Got dressed and I asked if he was going to wish me a Merry Christmas going out the door. He said n a very mean way I think every ones going to have a lot to be merry for. I went to his fathers opened gifts, my husbands was a Saphire and diamond necklass. Just the one I had asked for from Zale’s, I had My bible and we went to church when the pastor stopped and said he had a very long and sad talk with my husband the night before at the Midnight service. he said he needed after the holidays to get me and his family together for a talk, then the deacon, the man that was supposed to work stopped and said he was sorry that my husband had to work another holiday. Maybe next year was going to be open. They put their son and daughters in the first pew and went to their chairs on the dias. The Deacons wife noticed an envelope saying a gif for a pios man.

       the Deacons wife was also the secretary, Earlier that year she Had gone to a church conference in Nashville. It seems the deacon took a half day off in that time and when my husband got off work he noticed the deacon was not alone going down the road, I guess he observed him going into a motel with another woman, a topless dancer from down the street from their job. He took several pictures of the woman clinging to the deacon.

       His wife saw the pictures and stood up and went out with her kids the deacon was trying to say he could explain, by New Years she had gone to Texas to her family, And by Christmas 2005 the divorce was final, the deacon lost his office and stopped coming to church. The Ex deacon pulled up in the church parking lot on Christmas Eve And when people arrived for the midnight service including my husband the police were all over the place. The deacon had parked his car in front of the church and put a shotgun under his chin and pushed the trigger

       By this time I had a talk with the pastor. me and his father left the congregation, I was told that I was wrong for using sex denial, and his father was told he was wrong for using force to get my husband to work all the time. We were both angry at being told that on day we would be forced to face up to the wrongs my husband endured at our hands. We both asked what other options did we have, there were just so many people that if my husband took what he wanted with his seniority many would loose out on hopes and dreams.

       We were asked when was my husband getting his met, Held in a sexless marriage b the state. Forced at time at gunpoint to cooperate, his father got mad and said he’s going to be at 30 years in 2005. he can retire and live his life then. He said when he wanted advice on how to treat his son he would ask for it. He Had 34 years Seniority When MRSA set into his spine. He was found on his job in such pain he wanted to be killed before moving him.

       He came out of the induced coma three days latter after a fully fused spine, Finding the cord was partialy severed and crushed and no nerve impulse from the top of his legs down. For three years when I saw him I tried telling him the life he lad before MRSA was not meant to be that way it just happened. He could still live a good life in a wheel chair, just he needed to get rid of the idea we stole his life from him. Maybe he would not do the things he had hoped like travel, play golf or bowl. or sex but it was not the end of the world for him, we would have to see.

       The year before he came home I was contacted on face book by an old Boy friend and started seeing him whenever he was in town Thinking sex would not be a factor for my husband now. The day he came home I was seeing the other man for the last time, getting the surprise of my life having my husband come in with the help of a cane. Found out the Nerve damage affected lower just from the top of his legs. My old boy friend was thinking as a cripple my husband could be humiliated with out consequence and swept my husbands cane. He ended up with a fractured scull and almost every bone. above his central chest broken. My husband was put in a stress center, for two weeks, I feel his abuse of me started the evening he was sent home two weeks latter. I was supposed to go with his mother, father and his fathers best friend to an invitation only event. It was only going to be four hours without worry, Thinking of problems and his father said he would not be coming home for another day because we could not pick him up that Tuesday. I found out latter His suggestion was to build my husbands character he should be shoved out the door and made to walk home in the -40 degree wind chills. The distance was 20 miles in a hoody no gloves, coat, or shoestrings, he might have made a half mile before hypothermia was irreversible. The found his insurance provided a voucher. and they sent him home that way.

       When he walked through the door with the drivers help. I was just finishing getting ready. I went to the living room to see who had come in and was facing my very angry husband down. I instantly went defensive telling him exactly hat I had promised that evening and telling him we could talk the next day and get everyone that had an interest to have their say. He said, “NO”, he did not care what I had promised any one else. I had broken hundreds to him the last 31 years, and starting that second he came first in all things, and I was going to keep the first promise made 31 years before. I was so scared by this point I started begging just to pick a place after the event we would be there to lay his grievances out, I said the wrong thing by saying we can decide what he was allowed, it was like throwing TNT into a raging blaze. He said if any one thought they allowed him any thing we were wrong. He was the only and final judge and arbitor under his roof of what was allowed him and he was not allowing one more second of his life to be stolen or dictated. I was in terror when I took for the door. He just reached out saying I wasn’t going any where with any one in the outfit he had paid for and ripped every stich off me. He told me I owed 31 years of life back to him and he was going to have restitution that day. I was crying things didn’t have to be this way, I said please I will cancel the evening and we could sit and take things slowly. I said rage and anger never was inducement. he said he had nothing left. He gave no choice hurting me when I tried resisting.

       He threw his fathers friend face first off the porch an hour latter refusing to just let the man talk to me demanding a badge or warrant. The last three and a half years has met with nothing but his defiance to any thing, any attempt to tell him something was not his to decide. has met with broken necks, faces laid open to the jawbone, Last Christmas e thought he was going to send his horse down the road dragging his father by the neck while shooting several of us with his 30 30 for throwing him out of his house and using pistols to get it done, I was cleaniung the dinner I had asked him to eat in the barn out of my hair. ears and everything else. all I wanted to do was keep tensions down in a tradition of 33 years my husband was either working through or in medical facilities. his father had even offered 4000 to be any where but home.

       The only person that ever was able to get my husband calm, his mother died last week. I know now to keep any form of peace I am going to be without friends, if my husband cant or wont cooperate with them they don’t want to deal with him.The know that crossing him means pain.

       Reply
   • Candice on January 12, 2016 at 1:56 pm

     I too am wondering about what signs to look for. I am not forced to do anything yet, but he talks a lot about swinging or me laying with another man. I have told him how unsafe and unprotected it makes me feel but he still talks of it. I wonder what will happen in the future sometimes. I don’t know what’s ok to just talk about.

     Reply
     • Lynn on April 24, 2016 at 4:20 pm

       Believe me….it will escalate…sex addicts manipulate and control slowly and deliberately until you don’t know how you got to the place where you submit due to fear and wanting peace….it never ends….run now…

       Reply
     • Goziii on February 16, 2023 at 8:16 am

       Of course that’s your response, David. Typical male response. The woman is raped, abused, or used as a toilet, to the extent she is afraid to sleep on the same bed as her husband and your response is “…these women don’t want sex.”

       Many times, a woman who is struggling with sex is wrestling with past sexual trauma from another man.

       Of course, women too can be demanding, even when the husband doesn’t want sex. This is definitely unacceptable.

       Gozii

       Reply
   • Goziii on February 16, 2023 at 8:02 am

     Hello Survivor

     Because churches are led by men. So there will rarely be any
     church-public acknowledgement of a woman’s abuse, even if one single leader believes. Men are brought up in society as masters, without impressing that masters have a responsibility to all under them.

     Many years ago I was married to an insecure but very controlling man. I come from a culture where one must obey the husband, even to the detriment of self. And any objection to this can be branded as waywardness.

     My long ago ex, aside from telling me whom I could and couldn’t accept lifts from, talk, to in chirch, and deciding who I could and couldn’t be friends with, used to suffer from sexual dreams. Upon seeking advice from the one of the highest Elders, he told me to “give it to him whenever he needs it”, And that if he could manage to “wake himself up from the dream he should awaken me from sleep and have sex with me.”

     So for much of the time I felt literally like a human toilet, a repository.

     It’s a truly Christian and ENLIGHTENED male Elder that will consider the needs of Both husband and wife.

     Gozii

     Reply
4. Laura on March 25, 2015 at 8:52 am

   This could have been written by me. I’ve had the same experience with the church who believed my husband and called me an angry woman who needed counseling to work on my anger. Thank you for sharing so we don’t feel alone.

   Reply
   • Mary on June 9, 2015 at 3:08 pm

     Yes! I was told I needed to see a doctor! (meaning a psych) by the elder who violated a boundary and then wanted to put me down to protect himself. His wife was a prophet, so she would know, of course……..

     Reply
5. Jill on March 25, 2015 at 9:01 am

   Please do not post my last name… I wasn’t thinking when I filled in the fields. Thanks…

   Reply
   • girly on March 25, 2015 at 2:11 pm

     You might want to delete this comment since it was posted with your last name, just giving you a heads up.

     Reply
     • HisEzer on March 25, 2015 at 5:31 pm

       Girly, sorry to be such a technical dunce, but could you please explain how one deletes a comment off this blog. I see no available link or
       way to access my posts to do this. Thx.

       Reply
       • Leslie Vernick on March 25, 2015 at 6:12 pm

         If you need a comment deleted I do it from my end. Just let me know which one.

         Reply
         • HisEzer on March 25, 2015 at 7:20 pm

           Oh, thanks for clarifying, Leslie. (Hahaha — In reality I should probably delete quite a few of my comments— after rereading some of them 🙂 …, but, anyway — NO, I don’t want to bother YOU with that!! – just thought I was missing something we, ourselves, were able to take care of with a simple click or two… Thanks again for your invaluable ministry!

           
           
           
         • Lynn M on March 25, 2015 at 7:49 pm

           Yes, I have inadvertently posted my last name and you have deleted it for me. Thank you!!

           
           
           
         • Debby on March 31, 2015 at 10:22 pm

           Lynn, if you look early on in this conversation, your last name is still there as of 3/31/15.

           
           
           
         • Leslie Vernick on April 1, 2015 at 12:12 am

           Debby, that’s not true. Her comment was deleted and if you go to the official blog and look at all the comments her last name is not used. I appreciate your vigilance for her – I want that for all of our friends who write and don’t want their last names used, but it is not on there any longer. As soon as she requested it be deleted, it was.

           
           
           
6. Jill on March 25, 2015 at 9:03 am

   Please do not post my last name if possible. I wasn’t thinking when I filled in the fields. Thanks!

   Reply
   • HisEzer on March 25, 2015 at 3:43 pm

     It is so frustrating how porn has become such a ho hum matter in the church. Typical response by leaders: “What’s the big deal – all men struggle with this – at least he didn’t go outside the marriage!!” What?! So looking at other naked women, fantasizing with them, gratifying self … all at the expense of the marriage he vowed to honor and protect… is not going outside the marriage? Then they follow up with, “Lest you think you are free from guilt, remember you have committed murder in God’s eyes if you have ever had a hateful thought!” That apparently is how they justify it all… Groan…. This country is so far gone. How can we as a nation ever expect God’s protection and rescue from the present state of moral freefall when the church, itself – the bastion which is supposed to be the bearer of truth and provider of sure foundation to a lost world – is so willfully blind to its own lies, destructive practices, and rationalizations?

     Reply
     • Aleea on March 29, 2015 at 12:01 am

       HisEzer you said: ” . . .It is so frustrating how porn has become such a ho hum matter in the church. Typical response by leaders: “What’s the big deal – all men struggle with this – at least he didn’t go outside the marriage!!” –So that response is simply post modern “Christian” Atheism. –Just plain old post modern deconstruction Atheism. They want the “best” of both worlds but they will wind up with neither. . . .So God’s heart is broken by the evil that He sees and He stays His hand of judgment to save a few. . . .Our jobs are to examine our foundations -rock or sand- 1 Peter 4:17, Hebrews 12:27 -If they want to throw the dice and gamble with their souls, taking the liberties that grace will not afford them . . . .well. . . they are post modern Atheists and they had better be right that no God exists and that the Bible is only a human book (-because that is exactly how they are operating). They face eternal ruin and the extra punishment due church “leaders” -James 3:1 . . . .They know porn brings spiritual death: Proverbs 14:12, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 1:10, 1 Thessalonians 4:1, Matthew 6:2, 25:23, Colossians 3:23.

       Reply
7. Anewanon on March 25, 2015 at 9:15 am

   > My church (<– insert any venue: counselor, friends, family, etc.,) inadvertently became a safe place for the abuser when they refused to take the victim seriously.

   That is such a powerful statement. Together with "I was not a discontented wife looking for a way out of my marriage.

   If a woman was looking for a way OUT then she would be FIRST visiting a lawyer, not a pastor! Or a friend! Or a counselor! For these "safe havens to FLIP things around on her and make it safer for the abuser to abuser more is SO VERY damaging to both her and her children. The abuser just gets more emboldened in his self-deception to think he is right and to escalate his abuse. It is So sad.

   Reply
   • Ann on June 10, 2015 at 2:41 am

     So true!! This could have been my story. When I went for help, this is EXACTLY what one of my pastors acused me of… “looking for an excuse to get a divorce”. If I were looking for an excuse to get a divorce I wouldn’t have gone to him for help. I would have just gotten one.
     I already had a Biblical reason for divorce in addition to the abuse, but I didn’t want a divorce. I just wanted help. Rather than receiving help, my husband was emboldened by the pastor’s lack of concern and the abuse not only continued, it increased in severity. At one point he actually said to me, “I have the pastors on my side!” and “God doesn’t see what I’m doing. He can’t look on sin.”

     Reply
8. David on March 25, 2015 at 9:30 am

   Think these women should join the brethren as they also do not believe in any sex, including marriage

   Reply
   • Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 10:17 am

     David,
     What are you talking about? We would all like a healthy full marriage including sex. David the only reason you come here is to be Satan’s disciple and wreak havoc on hurting people.

     Reply
     • David on March 25, 2015 at 2:05 pm

       Despite what you think I am not Satan

       Reply
     • Callie on March 31, 2016 at 2:17 pm

       The last three years has been one loosing battle after another with my husband. First with his forcing me into sex after trying to keep him in line by sex denial for 25 of the 33 years , He was Either Under Water in the navy for 3 and a half years, Or he was in rehab for three years relearning to walk or like in 1987 over a vacation he wanted and I first talked him out of going on. in favor of letting a girl go having her wedding in Rome I had promised as the make up if he just stayed and work instead of forcing her to quit. Upon my return I would be the willing sex partner and travel companion any time any place and any where he wanted I would not say boo about it. We weren’t expecting him to hate the slot we chose for him from January second 1988 to February 1988, to not cause other people problems with their time off. He was going to take off down the road the day we flew in from Rome for Yosemite California. I had bought a peace offering gift after the anger over how we left. He even scattered our luggage in front of the airport refusing to take it into check in for us. It was even worse upon our return when I put my foot down about the January time frame telling him he would shut his trap like his father told him and just take what we told him to take. We pulled into the bus terminal five minutes latter He went and purchased a bus ticket to my mothers in Virgina, He handed me divorce fileing he was going to mail on Monday next and when I refused to get out of the van and board the bus he grabbed me by the back of my neck and just about tossed into the bus. with the luggage and gift I bought back with him saying give it to the next chump my husband youngest brother stepped between my husband and his father telling his father if he tried what he was thinking he would be dead before he hit the ground because my husband had gone into a defensive horse stance and his brother knew my husband was a 3rd dan black belt. I was not understanding how my marriage had come to this in five years, it was only going to be seven more months, if nothing else we could just stay home. I was gone two years until the court denied my husbands petion for my bipolar condition. That’s the seven years that was not included in the sex denial. It seemed everything that my husband wanted in his life made somebody angry he even wanted it. If he wanted a vacation it was argument after force to get him to not take the slot he chose then him nearly killing the son of his fathers best friend and three others in 2001 over him taking a job bid. I had even offered to help normalize our marriage and his life if he just backed off one last time, and because he would not four men still hurt 12 years latter after telling him he was taking his name off the bid one way or another. my husband gave them his option he was not removing his bid, and they were to get off his porch and out of his face or die. He left our porch a blood bath. and four men nearly did die that morning.
       And for every act of intimidation since he has hurt someone. Three years ago was when her came home and decided I was going to keep every promise I made to him starting that day and her did not care whos needs and wants he was destroying, Every holiday, vacation or social function since has been him dropping in the middle of ruining the days and weeks Three times his father has been under threat of being killed if he did not back off my husbands wants, The vacation cruise to Cancun last year was one. His father got drunk over my husbands defying him and wanting to go to, When he thought using a base ball bat to send him home instead of going would work his father ended up in the hall with a broken neck with one punch. We have been under his rifle as late as last Christmas when all I wanted was to keep tensions down over dinner. I made up a plate for him and told him to go out to the pole barn out of the wind. I ended up with the plate in my face and his father a lariat loop attached to my husbands horse and everyone in my house being told if they did not like him at his table under, his roof and with the food he provided. they were free to leave. His father was shoved out the door with the barrel of the riffle.
       Every thing I did over the last 33 years was an attempt at keeping the peace, Not having people angry because my husband was getting what he wanted with seniority. until it was just trying to hold him back from killing someone over his rights. Now its usually me sitting crying hoping nobody tries getting or interfering with my husband because he strikes first now. No more doing as I pleased. he says he now comes first or I can hit the road.
       What was done was not meant, It did get way out of my control, but I still don’t see the reason he had to get violent taking what he wanted in his life, when with a little more patience and a little talk we might have found solutions. Ways to let him have what he wanted without people hurt and insulted.
       The only two explanations are that he had two bad life saving surgerys. both had caused a years terrible pain before the situation was resolve, The First was headaches caused by adult onset Hydrocephalus A tumor had to be removed from the top of his brain stem. The second was much worse He had to be revived 2 times in that one when his spine was fused and he was left with out nerve impulse below the top of his legs. His father remains very upset he was retire before he was seventy Says we can’t get anything but dirt kicked in our faces by hum now. My husband will not let traditions of 33 years stand now, Hw would rather see them crushed. since he was not supposed to be included until he was seventy.
       My husband loves just making me cry now, he loves seeing everyone cower in his presence and nothing is the way we hoped when we married 33 years ago.

       Reply
   • Leslie Vernick on March 25, 2015 at 12:16 pm

     David your comment was sarcastic and uncalled for. These situations are serious and very real. Perhaps you need to hold the Bible up to your own attitudes and actions and see how you wound others – intentionally or unintentionally. Perhaps that is one reason your wife has separated from you.

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     • David on March 25, 2015 at 1:55 pm

       My wife left because I would not have sex with her when I had financial problems but I was taught while growing up that all sex, even in marriage was “defiling” and bad so I was trying to do the right thing. I have spoken to a couple Christian non-brethren and read the Bible myself and determined that the brethren are 100% WRONG! As I am almost 55 my life is over from that perspective and the brethren are 95% at fault. Maybe based on these posters it was a good thing in some respects as my wife would now charge me with sexual assault even tho having relations was always her idea! Even saying the word sex in brethren circles and amongst many Christians would get me into trouble.  

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       • Mary on June 9, 2015 at 3:16 pm

         How are the brethren church members meant to fulfil the Lord’s command to “be fruitful and multiply” if the mechanism for doing so is ‘defiling’? Totally wrong! We are to celebrate God’s wonderful gift of sex within God-honouring boundaries – not celibate it!

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     • David on March 25, 2015 at 2:06 pm

       So how agree with the brethren!?

       Reply
     • Survivor on March 25, 2015 at 4:24 pm

       Well said, Leslie!!

       Reply
     • Candace on March 25, 2015 at 6:19 pm

       Leslie, you gave such a beautifully truthful answer in a tactful and loving way.

       Reply
     • Ann on March 28, 2015 at 11:49 pm

       How much longer is David’s nonsense and upheavel going to be tolerated on this blog? He is disruptive and exhibits a hateful tone towards women.

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       • Sandra on April 27, 2015 at 2:35 pm

         David is an emotionally ill individual, who has no place on this blog of abused women, who are totally kind and supportive toward one another. Thank you Leslie, for your godly and wise reply to him and always to us women as well.

         Reply
   • April on April 4, 2015 at 11:44 am

     David, I do not know what kind of Brethren group you were raised in or what country, but the main Brethren groups (Church of the Brethren, Grace Brethren, and Brethren Church) do not teach that sex in marriage is wrong/defiling/bad, or that sex should never be spoken about. On the contrary, I have received some great teachings on sex in church! Humankind would die out if there was no sex in marriage–how does your church expect the next generation to come about? God intended it to be a gift we give one another within the bounds of a loving, caring relationship–which is why it is so painful when it used against us in an unloving, uncaring, non-relationship.

     Exactly what kind of Brethren church are you referring to?

     Reply
     • David on April 16, 2015 at 7:46 pm

       They are part of the Plymouth brethren (exclusive) in Ottawa, ON… and yes sex in a marriage was “defiling” but they always‎ used other words as they weren’t allowed to say the word ‘sex’

       Reply
     • David on April 16, 2015 at 7:49 pm

       Teaching about sex never happened and never, ever would happen

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       • Leslie Vernick on April 17, 2015 at 8:15 am

         That may be true in your sect of faith but David there is information about sex all over the place and if you wanted to know what other Christians think or believe about it, it was readily available to you. One of the problems with cults and sects is that they are controlling and rigid and don’t allow any “fresh ideas” or “new air” into them to see if perhaps they might be wrong on some things. Look at the Church of Scientology right now in the news. People are saying they are controlling and abusive and their ideas are the ONLY true ideas. Part of a mature person is that they don’t swallow everything that is told to them and they do some investigation on their own. So if you’re wife was pleading for you to do that, why didn’t you? Here is where you have to take some ownership. Throughout our conversations I have seen a rigidity to your thinking. Your way is the only way to think about marriage, headship, submission, divorce, etc. God might be trying to shake your faith up a bit so that you can see the truth more clearly.

         Reply
         • David on April 17, 2015 at 6:11 pm

           My wife never pleaded with me re the Brethren teaching and in fact she never even mentioned til she left … so wish she had sat me down and forced me to question the teachings that I was brought up with til married. Yes, I agree that part of a mature person is not to swallow everything that is told them but I had no reason to doubt as the brethren pounded that into me and used verses since I was small to a fully grown adult and I had no reason to think that other Christians thought any different so never even thought to question as had no reason to. Even now at age 54  and finally enlightened I must admit that is very difficult to think other than what I have been taught .. it is very easy to say “do some investigation on their own” not quite so easy in practice. My parents and other brethren have stuck with me but obviously the wife has not so there is some appreciation/loyalty there … also would not have been more loving if my wife had said something to me rather than giving up and leaving and saying that in 22 years she never loved me … then why did she marry me and have two kids … many questions thru my mind. Must say that the posts on this blog are extremely discouraging and give me no hope. Maybe I should just expand the thoughts of my former biz partner, who was also born/raised in the same cult … we are involved re corp finance … to never ever help/invest with a Christian … brethren or not.
            

           
           
           
9. Linda on March 25, 2015 at 9:45 am

   Thank you and will need to read this piece. God bless

   Reply
10. Elizabeth on March 25, 2015 at 9:54 am

    I did not realize I was being sexually abused until only a few years ago because there were no overt things happening. Then someone asked me if I ever felt raped or forced to have sex. My answer was an overwhelming yes, yes. I would be yelled at and called names and that night be expected to give myself freely and gladly to him. It was awful. I finally told him he could not have it both ways and if he did not change the way he treated me and spoke to me I would not be available to him sexually. He has never taken responsibility for himself or changed. I realize now how right Leslie is when she says it is because they feel entitled. It is their right. I am so thankful that is not true in God’s heart and He sees the abuse, the pain and comes to comfort us and set us free to kindly speak up and take action.

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    • Mary on March 25, 2015 at 11:19 am

      Elizabeth, I feel the same as you – I am just coming to realize that in addition to the emotional and verbal abuse there was physical abuse going on. I use past tense because I stopped all intimacy back in August. For 24 years I dealt with what I believe is a combination of sexual and spiritual abuse in that I get ICor 7:4 quoted at me every time I say no. I’m told it is my duty, that he is entitled to sex since we are married, etc. He actually said to me a couple months ago, “When you married me your body became mine and I can do with it whatever I want.” He did add that it goes both ways, that I can do whatever I want with his body, but the attitude of entitlement came across loud and clear. He also sees no need to apologize or repent after any harshness of abuse and expects me to hope right in bed. There is absolutely no regard for my feelings, the state of my heart or mind. I often complied just to shut him up for another week. While there was no overt abusive sexual acts, I believe the coercion and insistence that I’m required to have sex with him is abusive as well as repeatedly asking for things I did not want to do. Fortunately he would respect my no about that, but then ask again. Would you consider his attitude of entitlement sexual abuse? His insisting that scripture backs up his demand spiritual abuse?

      Reply
      • Loretta P on March 25, 2015 at 7:37 pm

        My husband has said that so many times. It’s sad how twisted they can become and how they twist scripture.

        Reply
      • Mary on March 25, 2015 at 9:59 pm

        That should say “sexual” abuse, not physical.

        Reply
      • Liz on March 26, 2015 at 4:34 pm

        Mary, I agree with you that is sexual abuse. I submitted for years thinking I was doing the right thing. It actually made things worse because I could not respond so he felt rejected but he couldn’t understand how I could feel like a prostitute in our marriage, he wouldn’t listen. I just couldn’t submit any longer and moved into a separate bedroom. That is when the Bible verses started coming at me and he contacted our church, wanting them to discipline me, for my “sin”. Thankfully, they realized he had some problems and are continuing to try to counsel him. I have since filed for separation and he had to leave the home.

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        • Mary on March 27, 2015 at 12:14 am

          I am just about ready to ask my husband to move out because I think we need a separation. I don’t know if he’ll go but will be talking to one of our pastors soon to see if he’ll back me up (I think he will). I’m not sure what I’ll do if he refuses. I guess then file for a legal separation?

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          • Liz on March 27, 2015 at 2:31 am

            Mary, that is what I had to do because he wouldn’t leave. We are still in the process but the judge awarded temporary orders which were, he had to leave and pay support.

            
            
            
        • Autumn on April 4, 2015 at 11:50 pm

          Liz and Mary. First sorry for your pain but thank you for sharing. I’ve been married for 22 years. Sexually it was unhealthy from the first night! He was physically gentle but the first two years were physically painful during intercourse. But I thought I was tough so I endured it because I wanted so desperately to be a good wife and please my husband. I see now that I was very good at being a martyr which contributed to the destructive marriage I am in. After childbirth that pain disappeared but sex was not satisfying. But I tried hard to please him. Finally 5 years ago I started to see the spiritual and emotional abuse I accepted as normal. It’s been a very very challenging road. Standing up, setting boundaries, absolutely terrifying!! But my children were watching; their lives were worth it. I finally said no to sex two years ago which greatly escalated the above mentioned abuse. My body was reacting so badly. I’d always been good at telling my body to do whatever I set out to do. Now it was (and still is) going into mild panic (not breathing, complete freezing up, feeling suffocated if his body is too close to mine…) I have tried hard to talk myself out of it to no avail. It takes all my strength to not freak out. My husband blames me that I’m allowing my feelings of anxiety to control me. He often quotes the Bible and many many Xn marriage books. Eg. about how ‘sex is the glue that keeps a marriage together’; thus i am the one destroying it. He says that I’ve made this choice to cut off intimacy. A choice. Not biblical. He says it connects him to me. I read that in a previous post. Wow. Really? Previously,
          I would have sex in order to keep some peace in the house. I would allow guilt, manipulation, not wanting to be sinful,etc to persuade me. I focused somewhere safe so I could endure and not cry at the end. He would get angry if I wasn’t happy and fulfilled afterwards and tell me how it made him feel about himself. He always wanted me to orgasm. Stressful. Didn’t work. Then he’d get upset. I tried alcohol a few times, readily encouraged by my husband but that was no good. Read that in a previous post too. I felt more used. Actually what a sick thing for a husband to want. I have never thought of any of this as abuse. I was physically abused as a baby thus it’s all my issues that are to blame he says. I still struggle with that lie or truth. I have gone to counselling over the last 29 years…and God has healed me of so very much. Having my eyes opened has been good but a very painful journey…God is faithful; I cling to that! Today was hard.I try hard to keep my CORE. I have never thought that sexual abuse was in my marriage; though the only issue we had. I never touched the financial issues because this one seemed so much more important. Hmm.22years later as I mentioned I had gotten strong enough to say no to sex . That took me off of a very sick cycle. Wow I’ve never been more abused verbally, emotionally or spiritually since then. Tonight I was reminded of all this: I am a sinful wife to do such a hurtful thing to my husband he says. He is so hurt (justifiably) that he lashes out verbally or stonewalls; plays the martyr saying he can’t be in the same bed if he can’t touch me sexually. He can barely work because this takes 90% of his brain space. He reminds me often that I am in the wrong; quotes scripture (I Cor.7 and Eph.5) that I do not have the right to do such a thing to him. I’ve explained calmly as best I can. He accuses me of not forgiving him and moving on. I want to stay well. But we are on another sick cycle. So glad I can read that I am not alone; that I am not crazy. Thx.

          Reply
    • Liz on March 26, 2015 at 7:38 am

      Hi Elizabeth
      Your story is mine too. One day it was one time too many and it was as if I ‘tore emotionally’ and I could see the word DEFILED stamped on my forehead. I haven’t ever been the same.
      Leslie thanks for opening up this topic. I was told by my Pastor – who was also my boss at the time – that GW wished he could be a fly on the wall so he could determine who was telling the truth and that I should go home and give my husband what he wanted and be a good girl. I’m no longer in ministry or even attending church – I haven’t healed enough even several years later. My husband still pushes but I mostly resist now.
      Liz

      Reply
11. Crystal on March 25, 2015 at 10:30 am

    Going through same exact thing re the church. Thanks for sharing. It’s completely devastating, you start to lose hope after awhile. Just drained from all this, too tired for anything in depth but church’s words/actions the same, also failed by CPS and court system. These guys can be so dang charming and they’ve reduced us to a miserable, hot mess. Of course everyone will be quick to believe/side with the abuser.

    Reply
    • Leslie Vernick on March 25, 2015 at 11:13 am

      Crystal, yes many women get reduced to a miserable hot mess but that is the part they need to take responsibility for and that they MUST change. CORE strength will help you build your internal strength back to help you not function as a miserable hot mess but as an empowered godly woman. A new class will be starting Monday, April 13th during the day for those who are interested. I’ll have information on next week’s blog if you want to sign up.

      Reply
12. Anne on March 25, 2015 at 10:46 am

    Here’s the thing with me…I do not know how to identify sexual abuse within the context of marriage vis a vis mutual submission. Is there such a thing as passive-aggressive sexual abuse in marriage? My husband’s twisted thinking is that sex accounts as “making up” if we have had an argument (no humble, contrite apologies–EVER!!). He refuses to reason with me that I consider intimacy as an atrocity after an argument (and not about minor issues, I might add); in fact, he was emotionless and just kept on arguing (blaming me) when I finally (after years) told him that I cry quietly throughout the entire intimacy encounter and told him he was being abusive to ‘expect’ intimacy after an argument or whenever he was unrepentant of mean things done to me. He is living in seventh heaven, expecting all the privileges of marriage with no responsibility–we are in financial depravity because he won’t work (says he might get sicker sooner in remission for NHL if he goes to work), meals, lazy life. Just wondering…

    Is this considered sexual abuse?

    Reply
    • Mary on March 25, 2015 at 11:27 am

      Anne, I have just recently in the past month or so starting labeling this sexual abuse. My husband feels the same way. We can have the most devastating, abusive episode and within 24 hours he’s expecting sex, with no regard to how I might be feeling and with no apology, no repentance, no remorse, nothing. He expects all the perks of a good marriage even though it’s been in ruins. He feels entitled. Thanks to Leslie I now have the words to explain my feelings and have been able to use those to explain to my husband why I can’t be intimate. Thankfully since I stopped all intimacy back in August and have made it clear I will not participate until his abuse ends he has stopped asking. But we have still had many conversations and I know the entitlement attitude has not changed one bit.

      Reply
      • Victoria on June 6, 2015 at 1:54 pm

        My turning point was when I noticed that he was starting arguments just for the “make up” sex. And one day, as usual, I was confused and a crying babbling idiot after as an argument was subsiding. I noticed a smirk on his face as he turned away. This was a game to him!! And he was getting more & more turned on the more vulnerable I became. Especially, if I was in a corner sobbing. And he’d want to make up. I would think, “Are you kinding me!” but would give in because a twisted love was better than no love and didn’t know any better.

        Reply
        • Victoria on June 6, 2015 at 2:08 pm

          Now that I look back, I left and divorced him 4 years ago, I realize there was emotional, sexual and spiritual abuse involved as he was a leader in the church and used scripture to justify his behavior. To this day, I’m convinced that he firmly believes that God gave him the right to dominate and treat me and the girls exactly as he did. And it was compounded by his mother’s (also domineering/controlling) “support”. I knew I was miserable and torn but I had no idea just how twisted my view of Christian love was, which was really enabling. It took me years, at least 10, to actually move out (in secret while he was gone). I quickly realized how verbally/emotionally abusive he was when I could actually hear myself think and wasn’t on constant alert for “the other shoe to drop”. Although, when I’m in a dysfunctional work environment that is also loud and full of drama, I am on edge. I’m hoping for completely healing soon.

          Reply
      • AbusedNoMore on June 8, 2015 at 6:47 pm

        My ex-husband would go to bed or work calling me everything but a child of God, then expect or demand sex within minutes. I would come home and ask him how he was was, he would go off on some tyrade about all he wanted to hear come out of my mouth was how much I wanted to have sex with him. If I said no, I would then get in trouble for something else entirely; for example, credit card charges that month…

        Reply
    • leslievernick on March 26, 2015 at 1:14 pm

      Sex in marriage is supposed to express a loving, mutual, relationship. That is what God designed. It is not something where someone feels like an object or used. If your husband wants to be sexual with you to reconcile, tell him that you need reconciling talk before your body can do reconciling behaviors. He may not need that but you do and your needs are important too.

      Reply
      • Mary on March 27, 2015 at 12:10 am

        Thank you Leslie. We’re a LONG ways from intimacy being able to happen again but I will remember these words for the future.

        Reply
      • Healing Heart on March 28, 2015 at 2:38 am

        The following is from Lundy Bancroft’s Blog of the subject of Sex Following An Abusive Incident. It really helped me understand what was happening and why my husband was pushing so hard for SEX following the abuse. He even said, “It helps me feel connected to you.” What he didn’t understand then and still doesn’t understand today is that the incidents of abuse are what broke our connection. God does not require that I give my body to a man who is abusive to my heart. Healing takes time, but God is oh so faithful and good. Cling to Him and allow God to heal your hurt and your heart.

        Wednesday, February 26, 2014

        HE WANTS SEX AT THE WRONG TIMES

        Verbal abuse is not sexy. Intimidation is not sexy. Public humiliation is not sexy. Ruining the day is not sexy. So why does he think that a short period of time – say a couple of hours — after he’s been treating you terribly could somehow be a good time for sex? He really thinks that this is when you are going to be in the mood?
        Not exactly. The problem, as is so often true with abusive men, is that he isn’t thinking about you at all; he’s thinking only about himself. He wants sex to reassure himself that he hasn’t driven you away, and that he still has access to your body. He thinks that if he can get you to have sex, that also means he has erased from history the destructive acts he did earlier. And he wants to have sex because in some twisted way his ugly behavior made him feel close, even though it had the opposite effect on you.
        And because of the ways he’s been tearing you down, it gets hard for you to say no to sex that you don’t want; you can end up feeling like giving him what he wants is the only way to settle him down so that he doesn’t launch into more abuse, or even violence.
        He is the one whose reactions are unhealthy, not yours. The feelings you are going through are completely natural for a woman who has been demeaned and bullied. When he has sex with you following one of his incidents, that is a form of sexual abuse, even if you don’t – or can’t – fight him on it. Keep reminding yourself that the sickness is in him, not in you. Sex after abuse is just more abuse.
        Posted by Lundy Bancroft at 6:34 AM

        http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2014/02/he-wants-sex-at-wrong-times.html#links

        Reply
        • Sharon on March 31, 2015 at 11:57 am

          If you are in the middle of a legal battle or considering separation or divorce having sex is considered to be both parties “forgiving” each other. Sex only belongs in a true covenant relationship that is mutually respectfull. Resist all advances until you are a WILLING partner. In my case the courts did ask about intimacy type behavior as my ex was looking for away to get out of paying support and since I gave in and participated after filing (the judge didn’t make him leave the home during proceedings) it was used against me as forgiving the “bad behaiviour” and I had to amend my petition to irreconcilable differences. This got me the divorce but changed some of the terms. My attorney called it something but I don’t remember the correct legal term. I know when it happened I was very naive and vulnerable, to this day I can’t understand why I did it. I didn’t love him and he was so emotionally abusive, belittling and neglectful. He also had a huge gambling problem that left the kids and myself with little or no money so many times.
          I have been divorced over 24 years but still remember the hurtful, mocking words.

          Reply
        • rld on April 2, 2015 at 12:04 am

          WOW! Thank you for sharing that Sharon. It is so very hard to wrap your head around the idea of sex within your marriage as sexual abuse. This is quite clear from Lundy. Thanks also to Leslie for opening this topic up…by the number of comments, it obviously is need.

          Secrecy keeps abuse alive and well, and so many good Christian women have been very well trained to keep their sex lives very private. How do you know that what you experience as your “normal sex life” is not normal and even abusive if you never talk about it with anyone? I remember clearly the look on a few faces when I finally did begin to share the ‘normal’ parts of my sex life. It was shocking to me how horrified they were. And it opened my eyes.

          Leslie, this article and Lundy’s comments are so very important. Somehow we need to be able to talk about this very personal and painful part of our lives and this is a safe place to do so.

          Reply
        • Sandra on April 27, 2015 at 3:15 pm

          My ex-H behaved exactly as described — in that he expected me to respond sexually after extreme verbal abuse, saying it was “making up.” Then he accused me of being “a cold fish”when I was unresponsive, adding that to all the other put-downs and accusations. When I finally set a boundary that I would no longer submit sexually until the abuse stopped, it only got much worse, until he finally left. He later begged to return, but I refused to reconcile, and the divorce hearing is in two weeks. Thank God for the peace and freedom I now have to serve Him alone!

          Reply
        • AbusedNoMore on June 8, 2015 at 7:23 pm

          I strongly urge all you ladies to read books by Lundy Bancroft. Even after years of counseling and some friends telling me I was in an abusive relationship, I didn’t get it until I read Lundy’s book ‘Why Does He Do That?’ Inside the Mind….’. It was a sucker punch of an eye opener for me… once I caught my breath and my head stopped spinning, I stopped putting up with it. For all you ladies, especially the ones who aren’t sure of what’s going on, please read these books.

          Reply
      • GVA on April 7, 2015 at 4:25 pm

        1 Corinthians 7 3-6 NLT
        3 The husband should fulfill his wife’s sexual needs, and the wife should fulfill her husband’s needs.
        4 The wife gives authority over her body to her husband, and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife.
        5 Do not deprive each other of sexual relations, unless you both agree to refrain from sexual intimacy for a limited time so you can give yourselves more completely to prayer. Afterward, you should come together again so that Satan won’t be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
        6 I say this as a concession, not as a command.

        Ephesians 5 21-26 NLT
        21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.
        22 For wives, this means submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
        23 For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of his body, the church.
        24 As the church submits to Christ, so you wives should submit to your husbands in everything.
        25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her
        26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.

        My wife and I have been having marital problems. I have a lot of trouble sharing and expressing emotions. She feels emotionally abandoned. Without emotional support, she has little to no desire for physical intimacy. I feel physically abandoned. It is a downward spiral and the disconnection is horrible. Even though we can see the problem we can’t seem to break the cycle. Honestly, I don’t know if our marriage will survive. That thought brings more sadness than I can express.

        As a result, I have been reading so many articles on marital struggles, issues of abuse and neglect, and just about every “self-help” guide out there just trying to understand our situation. The number of abuse cases from both men and women is, frankly, depressing. I haven’t found any answers. I have only found shared misery. Despite all this, I felt that it is time for me to weigh in on the topic of “wives should submit to their husbands”.

        I hear this verse quoted often. Does the Bible say husbands and wives should fulfill each other’s needs? Yes. Does it say that each spouse has authority over the other’s body? Yes. Does it say that wives should “submit to their husbands in everything”? Yes. Unfortunately, so many men and women stop right there. They fail to really read verses 25 and 26:
        25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her
        26 to make her holy and clean, washed by the cleansing of God’s word.
        (Ephesians 5 25-26 NLT)
        Forcing a woman to perform sexual acts that she finds shameful or inappropriate completely contradicts God’s word. Christ died for the church. He bore the weight of everyone’s (men and women) sins. It grates on my every last nerve when someone uses God’s word to manipulate another.

        God’s word should NOT be used to coerce. Regardless of being in a marriage that currently lacks a physical relationship, I am not throwing verses at my wife. We have more problems than the lack of sex. The lack of sex is just as much a result of our issues as it is a cause. I do feel that a physical relationship is important and both spouses need to find a way to please each other. But that pleasure should not be demeaning or bring shame to either spouse. And, if we can ever work out our other issues, I am looking forward to the return of the physical relationship with my wife.

        Finally, for those of you that have approached the church and did not receive help… please… please find another church. It is not God’s word that is wrong… it is the actions of men and women that are failing to help you.

        Reply
        • Mary on June 9, 2015 at 3:26 pm

          Thank you, very well expressed. I do pray that you will find the help you are needing – there is a wonderful mentor at http://www.livingwisdom.co.nz – who helped me out of my mess – a true vessel of God’s wisdom, practically.

          Reply
13. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Anne,
    I don’t know what NHL is other than the National Hockey League, but most definitely this is sexual abuse. Also, a man who won’t work, should not eat.

    Reply
14. Jane on March 25, 2015 at 11:43 am

    I’ve always thought of sexual abuse as being what happens TO a person. Can it also be what DOESN’T happen to a person? A wife begging for sexual intimacy and her husband “forgetting” that she asked. Over the course of years. A husband repeatedly promising that things will change and then never taking the steps to do so. A wife crying after sex because of feeling exposed and vulnerable and the husband promising that it won’t happen that way again. Is this abuse? Or is this just a difficult marriage? Leslie and others, please clarify.

    Reply
    • Loretta P on March 25, 2015 at 12:45 pm

      I think it’s a form of sexual abuse, but I’m not an expert!

      Reply
    • Lynn M on March 25, 2015 at 7:56 pm

      Yes, I think husbands use axe as part if the abuse in various ways. About five or six years ago my husband starting getting into bed every night, turning his back to me and never even speaking to me or acknowledging I was there. I felt like a ghost in my own bedroom, like j didn’t even exist. If I would mention it he would say something like, well you can talk to me too, you know. Or ok, what do you want to talk about (in a very challenging tone) I consider this behavior one of the key destructive behaviors in our marriage. We would have sex maybe twice a year, with zero intimacy. It’s hard for me to understand how a man can go so long without sex. I truly do t believe he is I to prinographynor an affair because he is so incredibly self righteous! But I think withholding sex and affection is just as devastating as forcing sex with no affection.

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      • Lynn M on March 25, 2015 at 7:57 pm

        Please excuse all the typos!

        Reply
      • Caroline on March 25, 2015 at 10:39 pm

        I think this is manipulation, emotional abuse, and sexual neglect. Sometimes called sexual or Intimacy Anorexia. It often goes hand in hand with sexual addiction and porn use.
        It’s funny, the mandate for not denying sex in marriage goes for both partners, but we can’t force a man to do it if he’s not able to become aroused now can we? Yet wives are told it clearly means they have to lay back and take it, (whatever “it” is) often justifying straight up marital rape. This scripture must have meant something else, since it can’t be applied evenly.

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        • Debby on March 26, 2015 at 12:00 am

          Lynn and Jane, I question the same thing: denial of sex within marriage – is it abuse? Some jump to the conclusion that he must be involved in pornography. This is not so, in my case. He just denies any intimacy at all. I think he is unable to go there due to fear. Even when I show him the Scripture verses about defrauding me, he has no response. Porn is not the problem here. It is something different. I do think it is sexual abuse though, but who is qualified to help with this problem?

          Reply
          • Lynn M on March 26, 2015 at 5:25 am

            It is encouraging to hear others dealing with the same thing. There seems to be two kinds of abuse: the overt, hostile aggressive abuser and the covert, passive abuser. One things that keeps me from trying to show my husband the videos, quizzes, articles, etc, to maybe help him “see” is hat most of these talk about the aggressive patterns, raging, etc. my husband is a silent “see their”. But it is just as destructive. Incidentally, I have three more nights in our marital home, and then I move into my condo, and we hopefully finalize the legal work for the dissolution by May.

            
            
            
          • Lynn M on March 26, 2015 at 5:27 am

            I meanst silent “seether” darn auto correct!

            
            
            
      • Mary on June 9, 2015 at 3:32 pm

        Just a suggestion – have you read William Harley’s “His Needs/Her Needs”? It opened a window for us regarding coldness of heart and the wife’s #1 need for affection. No more cold-shoulders now, has made such a wonderful difference in both our lives.

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15. Loretta P on March 25, 2015 at 12:35 pm

    Sexual assault has been part of my marriage. It’s sad but during the time if was happening I was told by three ministers together at a camp that if I would be more responsive in bed my husband’s problems would resolve. They never asked what was happening to me, only listened to him share about his self gratification problem and he didn’t tell them he was abusing me. I tried harder to no avail and eventually just dissociated during the acts to endure the physical pain. In the end I had to have surgery to repair the damage he did to my body over the course of several years. He now has lost privileges with me. Because of the dysfunction I was raised in I agreed with the erroneous assumption that the problem was my fault. It has been a long, difficult process of ongoing healing for me to be strong enough to say NO to sexual abuse. It’s a heart change that is still in process. I was raised with childhood sexual abuse and thought it was because I was defective and was getting what I deserved and that set me up to endure marriage abuses of many forms.

    I just returned from a women’s retreat and during prayer counseling the lady asked me about abuse and when I told her she responded “didn’t he go to jail for sexually abusing you?” I was shocked, why would he go to jail for injuring me I am his wife. It was good shock therapy for me because I had never before considered him injuring me as something he should be jailed for! If he’d done the same thing to another women I would have thought he should be jailed. Amazing how we can accept abuse as wives, but that’s NOT God’s way!

    In the past my church has always taught wives must submit to what ever the husband wanted, no questions asked. Now we have a wonderful Pastor who said “God hates divorce but he also hates bad marriages! I’ll support you if you want to leave or stay.” He’s been there walking with me through this mess, even confronted my husband who is now in counseling and will be getting more help soon. It’s going to be a long road to wholeness for us both as he’s into pron, sexual addiction, is a sexual predictor, a narcissist (recently diagnosed by a psychiatrist), has obsessive traits and has never attached to anyone in his life of 65 years! BUT GOD is able if he allows God to work healing. He is on church discipline and they are working with him, holding him accountable!

    If he doesn’t stay the course I’ll leave. I’ve already lined up an attorney, talked to the bank and began putting things in order so I can leave if I need to. We’ve been marriage 40 years and I’ve endured so much verbal abuse, his raging, occasionally throwing me into a wall or holding me down, etc. At this point I leave if he escalates towards rage. My Pastor is holding me accountable to call the police if he rages at me, threatens me or does anything abusive toward me. And I will! He and his wife are there for me as well as several in the church who have offered me a place to run to if I need to escape abuse. I think that is the role of the church, to walk with someone toward healing, be there to support them if they need help, give a place to escape abuse, support if they need to leave or divorce. The church board all think I’ve been to lenient with my husband and needed to leave before now. I was planning to leave when God got through to him and he’s realized he has a problem and needs help. It’s still not over because he has a long hard battle ahead of him if he wants to be whole and he has to stay the course and has heart change I’ll stay. I’m learning to hold things lightly as I don’t know if he’ll walk out the healing process or consider it to difficult and quit. I say that because it’s been his pattern over the last 40 years. So for now I’m still in the marriage but not allowing abuse or making long term plans! I’m working on my healing and back in counseling myself working on my core. Healing is both difficult and wonderful!

    I truly wish I’ve have left years ago when my GYN confronted me and told me I needed to divorce, but I had no support, family or church. She was correct it would have been better for me to start over, heal and build a healthy life. It’s difficult when you don’t have finances to support yourself, have no support group, don’t know where to turn and are emotionally broken! I’m now changing my heart dance as Leslie spoke to a few weeks ago. I hope to soon be in one of Leslie’s focus groups. I have learned I’m worth spending money on my healing journey.

    Sorry this is long but it’s 40 years in the making! If you’re younger and have not endured 40 years of abuse, consider your life, your children’s lives, what is best for you and them. Don’t be afraid to divorce and be safe, please don’t follow my example. I am full of regret for allowing 40 years of abuse and the damage it’s done to me. I felt trapped most of my marriage! I was sure God would judge me for divorcing but he LOVES us and hates abuse! Satan lies to us and I’m asking God to write truth over the lies in my heart and bring healing. Please draw close to God and follow his lead, be safe, he love you!

    Reply
    • Lynn on March 26, 2015 at 12:21 pm

      Loretta P…I am so sad to read about your situation. I feel an urgency to say this…you need to leave quietly, secretly, and safely AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Men like that kill their wives. GET OUT NOW!!! Maybe not having access to you could be the beginning of your husband’s bottom…addicts need to hit the bottom before they will realize they need to change. Praying for you.

      Reply
      • Loretta P on March 26, 2015 at 5:54 pm

        I’m working on leaving quietly. I’m making arrangements, opening my own bank account, just got an attorney’s name, have found the local resources for domestic violence, have my church behind me. I’m also sorting some important papers that I need to have handy and will be packing a suitcase for me and the dog for emergencies. My biggest fear is from leaving till something is final…but God is helping me!

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        • Lynn on March 27, 2015 at 10:07 am

          Praying for the perfect opportunity to leave to arise and for your success!!!

          Reply
    • Allie on April 28, 2015 at 5:27 am

      I am so sorry about your situation. My marriage is 24 years in the making. I have stayed in sexual, verbal and emotional abuse because I was scared God would hate me if I left. I need prayer-

      Reply
      • Loretta P on April 28, 2015 at 6:07 pm

        My minister said that while God hates divorce he also hates bad marriages just as bad! God doesn’t love the husband more than the wife. He doesn’t want women in dangerous and bad marriages. Sexual abuse is wrong and no women should allow abuse or stay in an abusive situation.

        Allie I’ll be praying for you! God wants to bring you freedom. Something that was shared here by one of the ladies, was that when she was praying for God to intervene, God asked her why she was staying! That was such a new way of thinking for me.

        I’m seeing an attorney this Friday to see my options and what I can expect and need to do. It’s such a difficult decision to end a long term marriage, but abuse is wrong!!!

        Reply
      • Leslie Vernick on April 28, 2015 at 7:16 pm

        God does not want you to be abused in any way.

        Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 9:10 am

      Can separate and remain in that state til death. No need to divorce

      Reply
16. 10arefree on March 25, 2015 at 2:20 pm

    I also lived in an abusive marriage for over 20 years. I did not realize that what my husband was doing to me was considered sexual abuse. My husband would snarl at me that my body belongs to him and he can do whatever he wants with it. He would tell me that having sex with me was like having sex with a prostitute. He would have sex with me while we were fighting, if I was crying, even if I told him he was physically hurting me. He called me the most vile names, and would pressure me to engage in acts I did not want to do. There were times that I would refuse to share a bedroom with him because his abuse had escalated. He would fight with me daily about this and tell me that when he cheated on me it would be my fault. He would rage at me about how I “cut off his access”. At the worst of these times, he even told me that I was out of line with Scripture unless I was initiating sex. At one point, he told me that while he continued to have sex with me, he spent years purposely withholding all affection. He told me it was my punishment because I had sex with him whenever he wanted it. He told me that I was just using him. He told me that I was sexually abusing him when I refused to share a bedroom with him. He also said that I raped him and that I held him down and ripped the children from his unwilling body. If I would get pregnant, he would be angry and spend the pregnancy punishing me, and escalating his abuse. In truth, I was never allowed to deny him, he would not use any form of birth control, and I found out that he had an app on his phone where he kept track of my periods and when I ovulated. For the last 10 years, I never had sex with my husband that started with me awake. He would always wait until I asleep, and I would awaken to find him forcing himself into me. We spent many years in counseling with our pastor. While my pastor would point out that my husband’s behavior was sinful or foolish, he never acknowledged it as abusive, and he made it very clear, that no matter what was happening, my biblical duty was to submit and give my husband whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted (his due benevolence). If I did not do so, then I was causing my husband to be tempted to cheat on me. A common thread that I see through the comments is the inability of wives to recognize their husbands behavior as abusive. I was told over and over again that it was is right, as I was his wife. I find I’m still not sure, and need validation that his behavior was indeed sexual abuse. Near the end of our marriage, we were seeing a professional marriage counselor. He is the first person who acknowledged my husband’s behavior as abusive, and addressed his sexual abuse and marital rape. My husband disagreed, since, after all, I was his wife. Of all the forms of abuse that my husband employed, I find this the most painful and difficult to wrestle with.

    Reply
    • Leslie Vernick on March 25, 2015 at 4:25 pm

      You are not alone. Sexual abuse in marriage feels so shameful and degrading – so depersonalized. Sexual abuse is depersonalized, you are treated like an object but usually we expect this to happen with a stranger, not the person who has promised to love and protect us.

      Reply
      • Leonie on March 25, 2015 at 5:07 pm

        Thank you, my first husband used to do that to me and I never thought of it as abuse but o hated it because when someone forces himself on you when you are asleep you cannot consent. He was addicted to porn but was also very vengeful, using the court system against me relentlessly. I know now that I was being punished for filing for divorce because a narcissist doesn’t like it when you try to break up with him, so I think he was ‘trying to make me pay’!

        Reply
17. David on March 25, 2015 at 4:39 pm

    what was so “sarcastic” about my comment!?

    Reply
18. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    David,
    At 55 your life is not over, but you won’t get a woman to give you a second look with your condescending attitude. There is nothing wrong with sex in a healthy marriage. You again are missing the point. There are men who hurt their wives and don’t give a big rats behind if they are harmed as long as they get what they desire. I don’t know who these brethren are but they sure haven’t got a healthy attitude about sex. In a healthy relationship their is no sense of entitlement from either party. There is respect on both sides.

    Reply
    • David on March 25, 2015 at 5:55 pm

      not just the brethren … many Christians believe and preach the same. Looked on the web many have been mislead by these “Christians” (I do believe they are real) these have destroyed many, many marriages … not just mine.

      Reply
      • Leslie Vernick on March 25, 2015 at 6:11 pm

        David, now your comments make much more sense knowing you were in the Brethren sect. But the good news is God isn’t finished with you and he is opening your eyes to their wrong teaching and legalistic thinking which is why I think you make the comments that you do. God wants you to know his love and his healing and that includes learning to be gracious and respectful and learning things that may be totally new for you to learn since the Brethren’s teaching is so narrow. Give it time. Let God show you grace and love and truth and you may find yourself a different person 5 years from now.

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        • David on March 25, 2015 at 7:47 pm

          ‎
          ‎Problem is my former wife feels I didn’t love her and left
          ‎

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      • Addie on May 14, 2016 at 5:24 am

        Please grow up. Stop whining. And find another place to spew your idiocracy.
        No one believes sex is wrong. It’s wrong when it’s forced or manipulated and not mutually entered.
        Bye bye

        Reply
19. David on March 25, 2015 at 5:24 pm

    Thanks. I will ignore all the negative stuff. At 55 any sex life is over. it is part of the normal aging process. I have every right to be angry with the brethren and you are the first Christian that didn’t know of the brethren!

    Reply
    • Janice' on March 25, 2015 at 7:06 pm

      Trust me David. At 55 your sex life is far from over. Take it from a couple in their mid 60’s. Pray that God would open your eyes to the truth of the Gospel and that you would be healed. Mind and spirit. My suspicions about you right now is that you are a troll on this site and that you are using it for some sort of sick satisfaction.

      Reply
20. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    David,
    You didn’t give me much to go on here. Tell me more about these brethren. Is it some kind of cult? The normal aging process does not mean sex is over. There are all kinds of remedies if one so chooses. I would suggest having a committed marriage first though and perhaps seeing a doctor prior to that.

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21. David on March 25, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    Thanks Brenda but I do not know how to give you more info … aside for their being much info re the brethren on the web, the British, New Zealand, Canada and the US have “on going investigations” and everyone so far that I have enlightened that I am ex-brethren they all know instantly of what I speak. Re martial relations, the brethren it is always wrong and never, ever go to a Dr or counselor …it is diff to overcome 20 yrs of brainwashing.

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22. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    David,
    I looked them up online, The Church of the Brethren? They seem ok on the outside, but perhaps their legalist rules are warped? There are a lot of these cults out there.

    I understand being brain washed.and how difficult it is to overcome. I think most everyone, if not all, understand that concept. It takes a long time, but with help from each other and Jesus it can be done. Some days are harder than others. You know 2 steps forward and one step back. It did get easier for me where the church is concerned, when I realized that I did not have to take their word at face value. I had my Bible, the Holy Spirit and Jesus helping me to unravel the twisted scripture that just isn’t there.

    Reply
    • Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 6:11 pm

      I meant to say that all of the commenters here understand being brain washed.

      Reply
    • David on March 25, 2015 at 7:38 pm

      Wow, I’m impressed that you took the time to look them up! Yes, they are very legalistic. Looking, acting, believing the same twisted doctrine is much more important than being saved. What bothers is that many many Christians think and believe the same crap – for several years my former biz partner (also an ex-brethren) refused to have anything to do Christians 

      Reply
23. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 6:14 pm

    David,
    On another web site, there is a man who speaks of so-called Christians breaking up his marriage and he is terminally ill. What “Christian” would do that? There are no true Christians that would. Not all that are professors are possessors.

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24. JustMe on March 25, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    My heart hurts even more when I read that so many other women have gone through these things. Its like reading my marriage in every response here. Sadly tho my husband and I were senior Pastors and I had no one to turn to. His addiction to porn and acts of making me have sex with him while he watched it, are just the tip of the iceburg of sexual abuse. We even ran the ‘Fireproof your marriage’ in our church and I had to grin and bare it as we portrayed the loving Pastors. The humiliation if how I was treated in the bedroom has stripped any self worth, value I had as a Christian woman and left me as a broken and crumbled shell. I no longer share his bed. I refuse to but I exist for my kids but struggle daily with depression and hopelessness that I am even worth the tiny space I take up on this planet.

    Reply
    • Amy on March 26, 2015 at 10:43 am

      Dear justme,
      My heart hurts reading all these stories as well. When I read your post something really stirred in my heart to respond. I’ve been through so many times where my husband and I have been around people and the loving, caring, almost perfect way he his acting has been so different than what is happening at home. Reading your post, my heart hurt so bad for you. I can’t imagine how agonizing it must of been to stand up and act like all was ok. I am praying for a renewed sense of purpose for you and for God to move you into a healthy, safe, and joyful life. YOU MATTER more than you could ever know. By no means are you just taking up space! He has an awesome plan for you and loves you so much. Praying and sending love

      Reply
    • Linda on April 5, 2015 at 7:51 pm

      Hi Just me
      I wanted to say my heart breaks for you and all women who endure and go through the pain of any kind of abuse. But sexual abuse and perversion seem to cut on a different level. I think sometimes because it is hard to find someone to talk to and many times women are left to deal with the feelings and emotions alone. thank you for sharing your story. I am still healing and sometimes I think it will never end but part of my healing is shedding the tears and releasing the pain within even years after recognizing the innocence my children were robbed of and the pain endured by those who didn’t believe or understand. And when I see Just Me my heart breaks because like me you feel of no value or the circumstances have made you feel insignificant and you are valued just as I am by God our Father and it takes time to grasp that reality as one sorts through the lies they accepted and began to believe. I pray God help you see your value and inner strength as you allow yourself to break the silence of those things you have kept to yourself.

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25. SS on March 25, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Yes sexual abuse was a part of my abusive marriage. It was actually the most destructive part. The verbal and the physical abuse were difficult, but I still felt human. The sexual stuff made me no more than an object! The sexual stuff was so shameful that I could never even admit it to myself much less anyone else. The sexual stuff wounded from the inside out. It wasn’t just something he was doing to me – it was me.

    Growing up, sex was for married people. No one else talked about it. No one else engage in it because it was sinful until you were married. So once that ring was on my finger all the boundaries came down. He used the scripture to let me know that sex was good between a man and his wife…that a wife was to please her husband…that he was the head of the household. I quickly became his entertainment something no more than a sex doll.

    I was humiliated because I felt that I couldn’t please my husband. I felt like such a failure, and yet all the while the abuse had gotten so horrific. It was never enough for him. I just knew one day I would get it right, but it was never enough. Even if I pleased him one night, he would take it to a whole new level the next night.

    The sexual stuff causes a lot of damage. I see now that I should never have allowed those things, but I just felt so trapped back then. I did the best I could. I just pray God will show me grace and heal those areas of my life – the areas that seem so broken. I do hope it is possible. I know that my past will always be there, but just maybe I can have a future even in this area…maybe.

    Reply
26. Brenda on March 25, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    Janice,
    I had that feeling about David at first. I hope it is not true. As far as the sex part, I’ve known people in their upper 80’s that are still active. There are no age limits.

    Reply
27. AJ on March 25, 2015 at 10:26 pm

    Great information, horrifying to read but very important! In my situation I still sometimes slip into denial about the sexual part of my abusive relationship. I once confessed to my pastors wife that the only reason I was having sex with the person I was terrified of was that I was terrified of what would happen each time I said no. She responded that I was prostituting myself. The payoff being preventing rage in my home. She did not point out that this might be considered sexual abuse. Because I actively participated, preventing the violence I never saw it as sexual abuse either. Still struggle with seeing it clearly.

    Thanks for helping us with your story.

    Reply
    • AJ on March 25, 2015 at 10:41 pm

      At another point, when talking about my marriage she referred me to scriptures on how slaves should respond to mistreatment. Thank heaven I was strong enough at that point to respond adequately.

      Reply
28. Kathy on March 25, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    Just curious what you meant by the women being a miserable hot mess.?

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29. David on March 25, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    It is standard /common knowledge that women do not like ‘martial relations’ so if the husband withholds it should be no big deal – in fact wives would like. So when my wife stated that the number when reason for leaving me was because I did not physically show love to her – “you never touch me”, due to my Christian upbringing, I knew she was lying to me but I didn’t say anything. ‎

    Reply
    • Leonie on March 25, 2015 at 11:29 pm

      You should have believed her, she obviously needed your physical touch. Wives need their husbands to love them as much as husbands do. I doubt if she was lying to you. Most wives don’t want new or different husbands, they just want to be loved snscared for by the ones they have. That’s partly why most if the women on this site keep waiting and hoping their husbands will come to live the Lord and love them too. We want to be loved the way God commands husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church and gave himself for her.

      Reply
      • Leonie on March 25, 2015 at 11:33 pm

        Pardon me – loved and cared for ;most of the women on this site ; will come to love the Lord

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      • David on March 26, 2015 at 9:44 am

        Leaving and destroying a marriage because not enough physical love was shown is extremely shallow and not Christian like. I guess it is a good thing that my wife left when she did because one never knows what the future holds … an accident, prostate cancer, meds, stroke etc may well make it impossible to show physical love and would my wife have stayed … 100% NOT … would many ‘Christian’ woman would not either. Also if a husband had a biz failure or other and lost all his money and needs to start over will be catalyst for wives to leave.

        Reply
      • David on June 17, 2015 at 12:15 pm

        My wife said that she had been lying for 20+ years so doesn’t matter. I lost all money, been thru the cycle several times, if my health stays good will do again, the banks and other funders obviously think so but my wife WILL not benefit. Stats have shown, many times, that men are visual and women like men with money, stats don’t lie

        Reply
    • SS on March 26, 2015 at 7:30 am

      Women like intimacy. Wives crave physical and sexual connection just like men! What we don’t want is abuse. We don’t want to be forced not by physical power or authoritative power. We don’t want to be hurt in the process of sexual pleasure for our husbands. It’s just not true that women don’t like marital relations.

      Reply
      • David on March 26, 2015 at 9:53 am

        It is good that you are an exception to the rule but these posters say otherwise and all my life within Christian and secular circles I have heard and made to understand that men like but women do not. Ps Several of the posters talk about that men have physical ‘needs’ … speaking as a man, sex is NOT one of those needs … food, water, shelter YES … did Christian men before they were married did they die!? (BTW … this msg is not for you specifically but in general … as is one of my pet peeves!)

        Reply
        • SS on March 26, 2015 at 10:15 am

          I don’t feel that I am an exception. I honestly believe that sexual desire is a God given part of our human nature. Yes, these desires can be shut off, but that doesn’t mean everyone is the same. Due to sexual abuse in my first marriage, I face difficulty in new relationships, but it actual not that I don’t have a physical desire only that those physical desires have gotten mangled up in someone else’s abusive behaviors. Women have desires just like men.

          Reply
30. Vicki on March 26, 2015 at 12:08 am

    I read this post this morning, thought, “Oh, I don’t want to get in on this one to comment.” I’m divorced. It’s okay to let this go.
    By 8:30pm, my teen son said his dad has a porn addiction and that he also has struggled in the past with it. I spent the last 2 hours trying to listen, ask him about his struggles, helping him to not hate his dad… You know why he hates him? Because he reached out to him for help in this addiction and his dad could/ would not help or address it because he’s mired in it.
    I stepped in as best I could. Weekly accountability, checking screens, and he is now in church and believing God has healed him.
    I’m numb, speechless, and truly grieved. My son wants to know all the issues his dad has and I will not tell him. I will not. It’s too many. I’m trying to heal, but truth is, that healing means I have to face the truth of what was a very sick relationship, that he was not honest with counselors EVER, that his addictions are numerous, and his anger keeps people away from ever helping him.
    For 22 years, I thought it was my fault. It’s taken the past 6 months to realize it’s not. Tonight, I realize he needs prayer – this is very deep, and pervasive. No more feeling like if I were more/ better/ different, this wouldn’t have happened. I chose to stay in it, and that’s what I need to address. Everything else is his.
    And now my son faces the battle.
    I would be destroyed, but I truly am numb. You think staying is a good thing, that they’ll change, that you can take it, and truth is, even if we can, the kids can’t. They feel it. They know. They are connected to it too. I don’t wish I’d of left earlier. I wish I would have had my son and left, but apparently, God knew best on this one. And He will know best how to heal them both.

    Reply
    • Lynn on March 26, 2015 at 12:52 pm

      Your son can get help for free from a group called Fight the New Drug. They offer a program to deprogram your brain from porn and how to learn what your personal triggers are…it’s online, it’s confidential and it’s free to anyone 18 and under. http://www.fightthenewdrug.org or http://fortifyprogram.org/. Also you can get a parent’s guide for free from them too: http://store.fightthenewdrug.org/products/the-guideline-pdf

      Reply
      • Vicki on March 26, 2015 at 10:59 pm

        Lynn, Thank you SO SO much!!!! I had no clue where to go/ what to do. Thank you and Blessings!!!

        Reply
        • Lynn on March 27, 2015 at 10:09 am

          You’re welcome! 🙂 I’m sure there are others out there, but this is the one I thought would work best for busy people who may not have time to attend meetings. This group is building a culture of young people who understand that porn kills love. They’re hip, cool, AND porn free. What a concept. Hopefully, he’ll like what he finds at their website enough to join in. 🙂

          Reply
31. Debby on March 26, 2015 at 12:26 am

    Leslie, is it sexual abuse or psychological abuse when the spouse completely denies sex or any intimacy due to an attachment disorder or fear or some reason that causes him to just not be able to go there? Is anyone qualified to treat this problem?

    Reply
    • Lynn M on March 26, 2015 at 10:05 pm

      Yes, I would love to see this addressed. I believe my husband has an attachment disorder. And he was able to behave “normally” until the relationship required the true intimacy of building a like with a life partner, and then he completely shut down.

      Reply
32. Liz on March 26, 2015 at 3:21 am

    i understand the pain of the lady in our leading blog today.Sometimes it causes more hurt to go to the church with your problems, especially if they are of a personal nature. My husband tells everyone that he is sexually deprived, but omits to say he has been unfaithful, watches porn and treats me like I am just there to do his chores and appease his appetites. he has emotional affairs on social media also. My church told me that men have physical needs and pornography is not their problem and then turned their back on me. It would have been better to have quiet, strangely enough. It has been such a harming attitude for my children to have witnessed who are now fed up with the church for not showing me love and support.

    Reply
33. Brenda on March 26, 2015 at 7:10 am

    AJ,
    I don’t think I would have a response to how slaves should respond to mistreatment other than walking away. How anyone would compare a slave to a marriage is just too much.

    Reply
    • Brenda on March 26, 2015 at 7:11 am

      Also AJ, The slave wife in the OT was given a writ of divorce when her owner husband neglected or abused her.

      Reply
34. Brenda on March 26, 2015 at 7:22 am

    David, That is ridiculous. Women and men are no different. Some like it some don’t. Do women want the sadistic, hurtful kind of sex? Not me, but there are some who do. You need deprogramming from the cult. Women used to be told that it was their duty. Really? Women have a libido just like guys do. But I think that is enough said. The discussion is Sexual Abuse in Marriage. These ladies and myself have experienced sexual abuse and don’t like it.

    Reply
35. Lynn on March 26, 2015 at 12:22 pm

    Seems like church leaders need to have the details of the sexual abuse SPELLED OUT AS GRAPHICALLY AS POSSIBLE in order to get it.

    Reply
    • Anewanon on March 28, 2015 at 11:15 pm

      I hate that they DO that. I feels as if they are asking you to let THEM judge as to whether or not your experience merits abuse status.

      Reply
36. Brenda on March 26, 2015 at 12:59 pm

    David,
    There is such a huge difference in not being shown physical love just because and due to illness. I don’t know your wife’s heart, but she obviously needed things from you that you were not willing to give.

    Reply
37. Brenda on March 26, 2015 at 1:04 pm

    SS, Amen!!

    Reply
38. Brenda on March 26, 2015 at 6:01 pm

    Loretta P,
    You are aimed in the right direction. Be safe, Do you have a friend you can stay with?

    Reply
39. Loretta P on March 26, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    yes, I do have several friends that have offered me their homes. I love my church family I would be lost without their support.

    Reply
40. Aleea on March 27, 2015 at 7:25 am

    You that shared your story, thank you, THANK YOU for sharing something so hard to share. You said: “. . . For the moments I doubt or fear love in this life, I ask God to help me, to help us all, be able to grasp the might, transformative, faithful, safe and pure love of God.” -Amen, amen and amen!!! God’s healing love is THE answer. (–Even though we are going to leave AND pursue all of our legal and tort law remedies -filing lawsuits, even if some are dismissed.) We don’t play games or hold back. We use the best attack: Colossians 1:13, Ephesians 2:1-7, Isaiah 61:1,2. -BUT that is only part of the solution. We need spiritual remedies too.

    As someone who has been down that serious doubt and extreme fear road just about as far as you can take it, I know God’s love reaches all the way to the furthest shores of your ability to doubt and your ability to fear. There are times of trouble in believing that can test our faith beyond the breaking point and God leaves us there as long as it takes until our faith emerges true and pure (James 1:6) –And most times, we think we know the ways He will choose to grow us BUT it’s never the way of our choosing and we certainly can’t -usually- comprehend why.

    –This woman’s bravery plus the wonder of the grace of God -even in this horrific story- is so evident. “. . .But, the greatest dream, and safest, most secure relationship I will ever have is with Jesus.” –Amen! AMEN. I just love what is coming out of your heart. Your Holy Spirit is showing!!! Praise God that what happened to you did not take Christ from you or turn you bitter. How is that even possible? That is the Holy Spirit living inside you. Always remember, people are so different than God or Jesus that we should not even use the statement: “God with skin on.” “. . .Jesus endured this, and would not be rescued by angels, to secure our present and future safety. If we believe in His love, accept it, let Him inside us, then nothing our spouse says, does or doesn’t do to condemn us will ever stand before God. We are safe. Their judgment is null and void. . .” —and -AND- your eternal destiny is secure too!!! Christ suffered the equivalent of an eternity in Hell under the wrath of God for each of us He will save so that we might not have to suffer there. -But let’s not kid ourselves, Hell is going to be full of people, full of spouses, full of church people too -God forbid, even some of us here. This is the reason we all must always examine ourselves if we are in the faith. That is why we fight for holiness in our marriages and holiness in our churches. Without holiness no one will see God: now or then.

    Again, marriage is NOT, I will take your heart and you take mine. Only Jesus gets your unguarded heart. -Our First Love Revelation 2:9, 1 John 4:19, Song of Solomon 2:4 -Not your kids, not your spouse, not your friends and not because they are not good and wonderful. They most certainly do have good in them but they are not good like God and Jesus are good (-what the Bible calls super, substantial good) even when they are “good”. -So, we give them a guarded but not a walled-off heart and we never stop asking questions of ourselves, of them, of our church: Is this REALLY God’s will?; Is this from the Holy Spirit?; Is this in line with Scripture? -Better think twice, while there’s still time you can go the other way –2 Timothy 2:22. Life is a mine field: Proverbs 3:6, 1 Peter 5:8, Matthew 16:24. Everywhere you look another casualty is found.

    Reply
41. Marilyn on March 27, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Hi Ladies, I’ve been lurking here for a while. I feel safe with posting here. I’ve been married for 24 years. The first 8 yrs weren’t perfect but good. We had a regular sex life. Once we had a first child, that’s when my nightmare began. For the next 13 yrs, we had sex 5/6 times a year. My husband hasn’t touched me since Nov 11. I’m forced to be celebate while married. My husband has no medical conditions, just a sin problem. I finally found out that one of the problems was a porn and masturbation usage that started when our daughter was born 16 yrs ago. I’ve since learned that he’s a intimacy/sexual anorexic. My counselor says that some call it passive/agressive behavior or love avoidant behavior. It’s painful to be in a loveless/sexless marriage. I’ve been on a healing journey for the past 3 years. The jolt or kick in the tail that I needed was on Valentines Day, 2012 when my husband came home to tell me that he was under investigation for looking at porn repeatedly on a government computer. I was in shock, hurt and angry. I heard Leslie on Focus on the Family shortly after. I read “The Emotionally Destructive Marriage” and learned that I had made my marriage an idol. I had gotten angry with God and all the other books that I read said to find a counselor/support group if you are stuck. I got angry at the books, because I said “why should I go to therapy for his problem”. I finally made my peace with God and got a counselor (May 2013). She recommended “Boundaries” by Cloud/Townsend. Then she had me do “Partner’s Recovery Guide” by Douglas Weiss. To all of you ladies who’s husbands are avoiding you. I recommend “Married & Alone” book and workbook by Douglas Weiss. It will clarify a lot of what is going on with your husbands and healing for yourself. All counselors do not understand the damage of withholding behaviors (anorexic). I’m in a better place, 3 yrs later. I’ve been working on my CORE. I’m still in counseling and I attend a weekly support group led by my counselor. I had to get my eyes off my husband (detach) and work on my own issues/recovery. God led me to a counselor who understands and has experienced the damage of porn and anorexia. I just started working on my Master’s in Counseling (something that I thought was too late to pursue). I should complete my degree a little after my daughter graduates from high school in 2017. I’m using these years to prepare for separation. My counselor said to not use the boundary of separation unless I’m pre-pared to back it up. My husband has been in counseling since he lost his job. He’s never gotten an acountability partner, he can’t really commit to a group. The last time that I went to his counselor Oct 13, he asked me to lie to her before a session. I told her and she said that she believes that he has never lied to her before. (she drank the kool-aid). She also told me that I was bitter and unforgiving. She said that she believes that he has given up porn.

    Reply
    • Anewanon on March 28, 2015 at 12:17 pm

      I am so sorry to hear this. You need a GOOD counselor, One who won’t drink Kool-aid!

      My counselor, who is married to an alcoholic (sober for 14 years) can identify with our issues very well. She maintains that an addiction can be ANYTHING that is your GO TO other than God. Thus an addict that hasn’t really come to terms with God will just bounce from this addiction to that addiction and remain unavailable to his spouse. And since they won’t give up their “my precious” they will lie cheat and steal to maintain it. They resent you because you turn the light on their sin. They can’t be intimate (not referring solely to sexual intimacy either) with you UNTIL they learn to be transparent and intimate with God first. And if they are, then they have made YOU their God which is also too much pressure. Their own relationship with God should cause them deep repentance and a desire of their own to seek accountability amoungst their Godly brothers.,. When that happens you WILL KNOW without a shadow of a doubt.
      We can’t lead them, we can only LEAVE them … in God’s hands … however that looks in your situation.

      Reply
      • Marilyn on March 28, 2015 at 1:45 pm

        For the past 2 yrs, I have my own counselor who specializes in trauma, sex addiction and anorexia. My husband has his own counselor for 3 yrs. I only went with him for joint counselor so that she would who I am, and my experience with this. Once I found out that he was lying to her and she believed him Oct 13, I never went back. I didn’t want to get abused by her. My husband went to Every Man’s Battle (Jun 14). He took a poly (Aug 14). I did find out more, but his anger, not following through and basically unrepentant attititude caused me to totally detach and focus on my own healing. If he wants to live in denial, not focus on recovery and his own issues. Then tha’ts on him. So thanks, my counselor is great, it’s his counselor who’s believing whatever. I see the fruit everyday in his life that he’s just checking off boxes. Not fully into repentance and recovery. He just does enough to get by. That’s why I’m getting myself together spiritually, emotionally and physically. I’ve learned that I can pray and pray if someone doesn’t want to change they won’t. People can go to counseling and support groups and not want real change.

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        • birdie on March 28, 2015 at 10:11 pm

          Marilyn…May I ask what you thought of EMB after your husband went?

          Reply
        • birdie on March 28, 2015 at 10:15 pm

          Marilyn…Why I asked is I know a man that went & he said they really did not teach the men how to rebuild trust & make restitution. Also they had to share a hotel room with a stranger. No background checks are done on the participants. That was unsettling to me. Now days I think it would be safer to pay extra to stay in your own room when you don’t know the background of a stranger your sharing a room with. Also most counselors believe BOTH the husband & wife need to be together in counseling, not separated like the EMB & WIB programs NEWLIFE does. The wives should not be left “out” on the husbands recovery. I was interested in your thoughts.

          Reply
          • Marilyn on March 28, 2015 at 10:48 pm

            From what my husband told me that the reason that they book 2 people per room at EMB is for accountability reasons. My husband didn’t have a problem with sharing a room with a stranger. We are both prior military, so we have had to share rooms with strangers. They hardly spent anytime in the room, because they were having intense discussions, groups, and counseling during the day. My husband said that they talked about everything “shame, guilt, consequences, how to win your spouse’s heart, how to repair the damage and how to stay in recovery”. I believe that EMB and WIB are good programs. Some people will make excuses not to attend, make excuses while there, and make excuses when they return home. The reason that they are separated is to minister to the different spouses separately. Wives in the Battle focuses on the trauma and healing from sexual integrity issues (including porn). I hope to attend one day in the future. Every Man’s Battle focuses on the truama, shame and recovery from sexual integrity. The men get a chance to say that there other men with the same/similar issues. That they are not alone in their battle. WIB offers women the same support (understanding the trauma and healing.) They get support from other women who have experienced the same thing, similar to this forum. I don’t feel left out from my husband’s recovery. His recovery is his recovery and my recovery is my own. Sometimes there can be no couples reintegration until people acknowledge their own stuff in then work on marital issues. People can choose EMB, WIB, support groups, or intensives. There is no magic formula for recovery. People can attend every seminar and still not change if their heart, intent or motives is not right. Some people have had great outcomes from EMB and WIB. The one thing that I learned from Doug Weiss and Leslie is to focus on my own recovery. I know many of us have been hurt and are still hurting from whatever sin that was perpetrated against us. We want that magic formula to fix our spouses. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t. That’s why Leslie says to strengthen our “core”. Our journeys of recovery will not look the same. The journeys for our husband’s recovery will not look the same. Some will get on the starting line and never take a step either out of fear of change or rebellion. Change = Action I can’t change my husband’s heart, I can only ask God to change my heart, intent and motives.

            
            
            
        • Lonely wife on March 31, 2015 at 9:46 pm

          Marilyn…I could have written every word you wrote!

          Reply
        • birdie on March 31, 2015 at 10:08 pm

          Marilyn…Ella Hutchinson has a great article @ Covenant Eyes called “What Every Wife of a Sex Addict has a right to know about her Husband’s Recovery.” If you are interested. I’m glad you found EMB to be helpful …. others I have talked with did not find it all that helpful. The cost now is close to $2,000 for EMB & WIB. That’s why I was interested in your experience. Thank you for sharing it.

          Reply
          • Marilyn on March 31, 2015 at 10:50 pm

            Birdie…Although I think EMB is a good program, it’s been 10 mths since my hubby went. Nothing really changed with him, other than him checking off boxes. What I was trying to say that no matter how good a program is, if a person doesn’t want to change, they won’t. It did cost $1,200, but I learned where his heart is. I always kept having hope for real change. My husband isn’t good with following through (he’s a good talker). I’ve learned that if his mouth is moving, to not get excited (he probably doesn’t mean what he says). I’m not going to knock a program, because my husband refuses to change. I don’t think that he is really sorry for the pain that he has caused me and our marriage. I still feel like the shame/guilt about how he lost his job means more.

            
            
            
      • Aleea on March 28, 2015 at 10:58 pm

        Anewanon you said “. . .My counselor . . .She maintains that an addiction can be ANYTHING that is your GO TO other than God. . .[Your precious]” –That’s excellent counseling!!! That’s our goal: “Addiction” of a different kind RE:Psalm 112:7 –A singleness of heart, an undistracted mind. A God fixation!

        Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 9:32 am

      Really!?? You are throwing away your husband because he will not have sex with you?! How shallow and def unChristian!

      Reply
42. Debby on March 27, 2015 at 2:35 pm

    Lynn, thanks for your response! I’m wondering if attachment disorders are classified as mental illness? If so, is a psychiatrist the right person to help? Or are there counselors qualified to deal with this? And how can they be treated in order to overcome this when it is not due to porn. I believe the cause is a home life integrated with cult-type of tactics: intimidation, exhaustion, brain washing ,etc. Marilyn, thanks for the tips on books! Is “sexual/intimacy anorexia” an official diagnosis these days? A counselor must have a great deal of discernment to tell if one is lying! I have a strong core and would love to converse with another who lives in the same situation as I do. Leslie, I give you my permission to give my email to Lynn and Marilyn! Will you do that?

    Reply
    • Marilyn on March 28, 2015 at 2:14 pm

      Debby and Lynn, from talking to my counselor and according to Doug Weiss, addictions can be part of a psychological disorder or supports the disorder. The common disorders that display intimacy anorexia are 1)major depression, 2) schizoid personality disorder, 3)narcissistic personality disorder, 4)antisocial personality disorder and 5)avoidant personality disorder. My husband says that his psychologist believes that he has avoidant personality disorder. With that diagnosis, I don’t know if he tells himself that because he has an official label, that I can’t help but be this way. He says that he’s a Christian. I feel that that we have a responsiblity to obey God. James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. I believe that once we are aware that something is wrong, that is offends someone or that it is sin. If we choose to do it anyway then it is sin to us. In my own opinion there are a few counselors/psychiatrist skilled at detecting anorexia. Since, I’ve been in school we’ve talked about how we may have clients who would try to manipulate us and tell what we want to hear. My husband has told me several times that is how he has lived his life “telling people what they want to hear”. He’s told me so much that I’m skeptical about anything he says or does. He definitely lacks integrity. He has a way of twisting things and making you feel like the bad guy, because he will avoid conflict/confrontation at all cost. He says to him all conversation is confrontation even though he knows that he shouldn’t feel that way. I can’t concern myself about what’s wrong with him, what caused him to be like this, if he will ever recover. I know I may seem cold, but he knows right from wrong. I told him in Oct 13, that his counselor can’t help him if chooses not to be honest. You can’t fix a lie.

      Reply
      • Lonely wife on March 31, 2015 at 10:08 pm

        Marilyn, my H is passive aggressive….he knows it, but refuses to do any work on himself to fix what’s broken within…I even asked him to stop going to counseling because it was a waste of money, since he was doing nothing his counselor suggested.

        Reply
    • Lynn M on March 29, 2015 at 8:04 am

      There is so much information here! Thank you Marilyn and Debby, I am so sorry you are living this too. From information I have gotten on this blog, I have done some research, and when I read about narcissistic personality (covert) and avoidant personality they seem to describe my husband perfectly. I have tried on several occasions to get him to connect with a counselor and he refuses to believe that any of this is his doing. He says that our relationship problems are my fault and that he has been victimized here. Marilyn comments and all conversation being confrontational is truly another eye-opener for me. For 15 years, my husband has acted as if every time I try to talk to him, I am attacking him. Even if I am asking a simple question, I must have some kind of ulterior motive and he must defend himself against my attack. I have learned that over the years, even me asking him to go to a movie with me, or to dinner, is perceived as an attack and an “expectation” he must conform to. I believe that you simply cannot have a relationship with someone like this — you may live under then same roof with them, but it will never be a relationship. I spent so many years (15 years married) being so confused about what was happening in my marriage, because I assumed that I was married to someone who also wanted a relationship, and I didn’t understand why all these things were happening. I thought that when I told him a behavior on his part was hurtful to me, he would stop that behavior because he loved me and wouldn’t want to hurt me. Mostly from reading this blog, and the books everyone talks about here, I now understand that my husband doesn’t want a “wife” or isn’t capable of having a “wife”. He wants a body in the space that he calls “wife”. Those are two totally different things. I cant be that empty body any more, because I am losing my soul. I initiated the separation process on Dec 26 and as I am typing this, I am getting ready to pack the last three boxes and move to a condo I bought when I took half of our savings. Last night was the final night I will spend in this house where both my children were born and we have lived for 15 years. Sadly, these men are not equipped to be husbands. They may try to be good people, they may try to look like they are a good person, but at their core, they simply are not capable of connecting. Maybe other situations will be different, but I was never able to get my husband to see the damaged he had caused me. I have come to learn that, as in the serenity prayer, this is something I do not have the power to change, no matter how hard I try and no matter what I do. He will be who he is. And I had hopes that my leaving would wake him up — we’ll see, but from what I see now, he is slipping into victim mode and playing “poor me”. I think the very nature of the disorders these men have will keep them from being able to look within and own their problems. I hope I’m not being too gloomy for people who are holding on to hopes of fixing it. I think the only course for women in this situation is work on yourself and either accept that this will be your reality, or make a new reality.

      Reply
      • Anewanon on March 29, 2015 at 10:02 am

        Dear Lynn M.,

        I am so sorry that you are facing this. Just be aware that with guys like this, in divorces with kids, he will play up that victim card as if it were his Ace of Spades trump. I hope I am wrong. But most of these guys who do NOT WANT THE LIGHT TURNED ON their sin, will ramp up their sinful behavior to punish you. I hope you are the exception. While it is good for the kids to see a mom standing up to an unacceptable situation, be aware that the courts will aim to give him 50% of their time and now its time ALONE with them. Ugh. I pray you have strong kids. Keep them in the Word (read with them) so that they can use GOD’S word to divide rightly for themselves. GOd is bigger than all of this.

        Reply
        • Marilyn on March 31, 2015 at 11:26 pm

          Lynn…I agree with Anewanon. My counselor warned me that even the most passive man can turn on you in the event of a separation or divorce. They sometimes will play dirty to make you look like the bad one. They want to be seen by others as the good one. Have you gotten some legal advice just in case. It’s better to be informed now, than to wait and see what moves he may make.

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      • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:12 am

        “not capable of connecting. ” so you are throwing out your husband!? How cold. Of course you don’t really love him, he is sick, broken so need to get rid of him. My wife did that to me. I have done much but several people including my brethren Christian mother are telling me to never, ever take her back. If you and your husband were ever to get back together again there is a 100% chance that you will leave him again in the future – you will find some other excuse

        Reply
43. birdie on March 27, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    For those who have had sexual abuse in their marriage please look at Hosea Chapter 3. As you read you will see when God told Hosea to buy back Gomer, Hosea then told Gomer there would be NO physical intimacy with him until he saw real repentance from her. Yes the book of Hosea is a portrait of God’s unfaithful people the Israelites but it also gives us an answer in our marriages. Without true repentance there is no intimacy, physical, emotional & spiritual.

    Reply
44. birdie on March 27, 2015 at 8:51 pm

    To HisEzer…If you can get a copy of An Affair of the Mind. Best book by far on the devasting effects of Pornography. I wish Focus on the Family would reprint this book. I just learned the author “Laurie Hall” has come out & gave her real name & now has a website. The book was written in ’97 (I think) but I learned in 2003 they divorced. She stayed with him through several decades of marriage, yet he would not stop his sexual sin. (Porn, strippers, prostitues, etc) She & her kids lost everything because of his sin. They were homeless for awhile. Would like her to write a follow up book.

    Reply
    • HisEzer on March 28, 2015 at 7:56 am

      Great book! It was the first one I read after discovery of the porn.

      Reply
      • birdie on March 28, 2015 at 10:09 pm

        HisEzer…Did you read “Your Sexually Addicted Spouse” by Means/Steffens? Its the second best after Laurie’s on sexual sin/

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        • HisEzer on March 28, 2015 at 11:46 pm

          I sure did! Another good book!

          Reply
45. Lonely wife on March 28, 2015 at 2:14 am

    I haven’t been sexually intimate with my husband for over 9 mos…this after I read Leslie’s book. I realized that it’s not “my duty” to fulfill my husbands sexual desires when he shuts me out emotionally. I’ve cried, begged, pleaded with him to open up and talk to me…to no avail.
    He had an emotional affair 4 yrs ago and excepts me to just “get over it!” He’s started and stopped counseling 5 times now…
    I had told him repeatedly that I didn’t like sex, that I felt used, and all he would say is “I’m sorry you feel that way.”….and then want sex again the next day. He didn’t care how I felt….he never asked me “What can I do so you don’t feel this way?” Or “How can we fix this?” No. He didn’t care how I felt, as long as he was satisfied, that’s all that mattered to him. I didn’t matter.
    I started numbing myself with alchohol when he started pushing for sex…and my husband ENCOURAGED me to do this! That’s when I realized that he was a very selfish man, and cared only for himself…
    We had a “nice” talk last weekend, and I told my husband that he’s destroying our marriage….he said he doesn’t want to lose me, and that he’s going to make an effort to change….that his last counselor, that he only saw 5 times before he quit…again…said that it has to come from him, that he’s the ONLY one who can do the work, well I felt very positive after our talk, and was even considering resuming sex, just to show him that I believe in him and will support him as he “works on himself”….but I felt uneasy about that, so I prayed and asked God to show me if this was the right decision I was making….and the next day I come on this blog and read this post and all these comments…and I thanked God that He showed me to stand firm on my boundaries!
    My husband isn’t going to change…his words are empty, and all his promises are false. I’m so happy God showed me the truth…once again! I want to believe in my husband but deep down….I know better.

    Reply
    • Anewanon on March 28, 2015 at 12:23 pm

      SO glad you didn’t cave to a deceptive man’s mere words. Its hard to do when we love them so much and so hope for the best. We want to take that wedding scripture 1 COR 13 for a ride to the moon and back hoping that our love will CURE all things. Good for you. WIsh i was as smart!

      Reply
    • birdie on March 28, 2015 at 10:04 pm

      Please see my previous post…read Hosea Chapter 3. Hosea makes it clear that until TRUE repentance there will be no physical, emotional intimacy in their marriage. I ask this question with care, is it possible your husband is involved in Pornography? Often when a husband begins to withdraw from his wife its because of Porn.

      Reply
      • birdie on March 28, 2015 at 10:05 pm

        My post was in response to “Lonely Wife”. Why does this webpage not put comments in order?

        Reply
      • Marilyn on March 28, 2015 at 10:59 pm

        Sometimes when a man withdraws from his wife it’s because of porn. But it could be other issues such as feelings of anger, rejection, self-esteem issues, depression. In my husband’s case the porn is a symtom of some deeper issues that he has. Most addictions are symptoms of deeper issues. Oftentimes, people see the addictions or sin in people’s lives. But oftentimes there are deeper issues underneath. Some people don’t want to peel back the layers because of the pain. So they act out (addictions). Some people do things because it’s pleasurable and they are completely selfish. Sin is only enjoyable for the moment. Some people love their sin.

        Reply
        • Lonely wife on April 2, 2015 at 2:14 pm

          Thank you all for your kind words…Yes, I’ve considered porn…but if he is addicted, I wouldn’t know how or where. He doesn’t have a computer at home, he uses mine or my sons, and I check the history, plus we have covenant eyes on the computers…We share a checking acct. so if money were missing I’d know, but like we’ve all heard…where there’s a will, there’s a way!
          I’m the one who stopped the sexual side of the marriage, not my husband…I think there is a lot of anger on his part towards me, he’s passive aggressive, they don’t show their anger, they act it out!
          Anyway, I do think he’s weighed it in his mind…”work on myself, open up the deep, deep issues within and deal with the pain and hurt from my past, so I can have a healthy marriage”…or….”not have sex with my wife because she refuses to be used anymore”…and he has decided that not having sex with his wife is easier for him!!

          I do have issue though with his groping me in bed! What’s the best way to handle this? He’s constantly touching me and pulling my nightgown up and putting his hand on my stomach or between my legs…and I ask him to please remove your hand! He gets upset and says he likes touching me, that I am his wife…he the. turns over onto the other side of the bed, which is fine with me! I don’t like being touched by him at all!
          He kisses me and tries to hug me all the time…I’ve told him repeatedly that he’s not respecting my boundaries and if it continues he’s going to have to move into the spare room…he did sleep in there for about 8 weeks after the incident in Dec. where he flirted with a coworker…and then got angry with me for calling him on it!
          I will admit, it was just a flirty “banter” back and forth, but when you’re married and have a history of cheating, that is a HUGE issue for me!
          Leslie Vernick…I hope you see this….if so, what is the best way to handle the “wandering hands” issue, and the wanting to hug and kiss me all the time??

          Reply
          • Leslie Vernick on April 2, 2015 at 5:31 pm

            You have stated your boundaries. He refuses to respect your feelings – treating you again as if you were an object instead of a person – i.e. you’re my wife therefore, I can do what I want. So the next step is consequences – “I guess we can’t sleep in the same bed together if you will not get the help you need to restore our relationships or keep your hands to yourself”. You’ve threatened the spare room, but it’s time to implement it unless you want to continue to be groped in the middle of the night. You can only change YOU, even if that means you’re the one who has to move into a different room – with a lock on it. Your no means no, even if you are married.

            
            
            
      • Lonely wife on April 2, 2015 at 2:15 pm

        Yes, I will do that now, Birdie! Thank you!!

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        • Lonely wife on April 2, 2015 at 6:47 pm

          TY Leslie!! You told me exactly what I’ve been thinking…he can move back onto the spare room if he can’t keep his hands to himself…and get the help he needs!
          Thank you for this blog, and also, thank you for taking the time to respond to our questions…it truly means a lot! 🙂 I am praying for you Leslie!

          Reply
          • Dewwy on April 2, 2015 at 7:42 pm

            My husband did this very same thing to me. No matter how many times I asked him not to touch me sexually in bed, he did not respect this. For the past 2 years, he waited until he thought I was asleep and then groped me. I finally moved out of the bed we have been sharing for 30 years and into another room. It was so difficult to do but so necessary. Honestly, the day I moved into the other room is the day I can say I was able to let go of so much anger and actually move forward in my own personal healing.

            
            
            
          • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:24 am

            Think you should never have gotten married – did you not know that sex was part of the deal!?

            
            
            
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:19 am

      You stated that you didn’t like sex, us husband’s can tell and then do not want to have sex with our wives either

      Reply
46. birdie on March 28, 2015 at 10:06 pm

    Comments are not showing in order by dates. Its confusing when reading

    Reply
47. Anewanon on March 28, 2015 at 11:10 pm

    AMEN! Love your God with all your heart soul and mind … ALL means ALL

    Reply
    • Aleea on March 29, 2015 at 6:37 pm

      Anewanon, most certainly you are correct. I am with you, all the way. . .

      The big point I see from scripture is that SHAME fuels all kinds of NASTY, rotten addictions: over/ under eating, porn (visual or written), all kinds of drama!, gossiping, alcohol use, drugs, covering hurt with anxiety, et. al.

      Husband/Wife is cut off from the True Source of LOVE.
      —> This “disconnect” creates SHAME.
      —> Shame is what fuels addictions.

      We cannot make these behaviors go away, no matter how much we “try”– we have to see what the root cause is, and heal that. Once we identify the cause then we can find the true cure! This disconnect from the True Source of Love occurs out of some form of non-repentance/ ignorance/ not-knowing, in fullness. ( i.e.: “Forgive them Father for they know not what they are doing.”)

      From scripture, we see that the way to get rid of shame is to keep our hearts clean so that we can receive God’s love. -And receive His love BUT GOOD (-whole raft of technical terms for that). Once God’s love is freely flowing into us, we will not need to numb (depress) our hearts with the stuff of nothing, running from the shame. -Truly, addictions are the stuff of nothing. –And cleaning our hearts is just wonderful fun. –Absolutely wonderful. God’s love is THE answer but we will not receive that love unless we keep our hearts clean of idols, clean of addictions, clean of the stuff of nothing. You can’t stay present with your spouse if you are always numbing your heart with addictions. (RE: one addiction to the next addiction vs. Becoming someone NEW.) –This, you obviously know but I need to be reminded.

      —Oh, btw . . .the meaning of “all” in Scripture is always determined by the context, and rarely, if ever, means all without any kind of limitation RE: “all means all and that’s all all means.” –Examination of that word “pas” would show that the term is almost always limited. God uses the word “pas” in all kinds of different ways, interpreting the word requires careful attention to context. -But I know what you mean by “ALL MEANS ALL.”

      -Anyway, as you know, only God can get people to fully repent. The arm of flesh will always fail. –Over eating, romance novels, porn, alcohol use, etc. Obviously, none of this is going to teach you how to guard your heart so you don’t get hurt. That hurt fuels even more addictions and even more shame. You can’t study your way there, no way. You can’t white knuckle yourself there through effort. -I just always beg God for “Addiction” of a different kind (RE:Psalm 112:7) –A singleness of heart, an undistracted mind. I just resort to begging God. I don’t know what else to do but beg. –And it hurts when reprimanded but it hurts Him more than it’s hurting us (1 Timothy 4:12, Ephesians 4:1). –And it is the path of victory (Psalm 19:7-11, 33:11, 119:105).

      Reply
48. Anewanon on March 29, 2015 at 9:56 am

    I am so sorry that you are facing this. Just be aware that with guys like this, in divorces with kids, he will play up that victim card as if it is his Ace of Spades trump. I hope I am wrong. WHile it is good for the kids to see a mom standing up to an unacceptable situation, be aware that the courts will aim to give him 50% of their time and now its time ALONE with them. Ugh. I pray you have strong kids. Keep them in the Word (read with them) so that they can use GOD’S word to divide rightly for themselves.

    Reply
    • Anewanon on March 29, 2015 at 9:57 am

      oops that was posted to the wrong string. PLease delete.

      Reply
49. Debby on March 29, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    Marilyn, you will make an EXCELLENT counselor in 2017, due to your experiences, knowledge, and wisdom from on high. Do remember that, while addiction to porn is rampant these days, and may account as the underlying reason for 99.9% of this, there can be another basis for the avoidant personality disorder. I’m not exactly sure what the proper name for it is, but a home life similar to Auschwitz, with cult tactics can result in this label. This man has zero passion, is avoidant, and cannot pursue anything – even a conversation. However, he does know how to work. That is his GREAT STRENGTH! He can do – but cannot give. In playing Pictionary, he draws stick people – without arms! That is how he sees himself – and maybe other people, too? The cause of everything is sin – for sure. We can blame sin for everything! Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church. I gather that the point of the marriage, or God’s will for the marriage relationship, is not the ideal, as in Song of Solomon, but to bring God glory in how we love/work/live in a sin-sick affected world? (ie Hosea) I can only work on myself. That is true. Acknowledging sin is the first step to healing. This is true, too. God is in our marriages. I can see His Hand in our dysfunctional backgrounds and putting us together. Yet, how this is the abundant life, He came to give, is a challenge! Our great work is caring for our disabled son. When he passes on…staying together will be the greatest test of my life.

    Reply
50. Heidi on March 30, 2015 at 8:08 am

    It took until I’d separated to realize my husband had been addicted to porn our entire marriage!

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:28 am

      Yes, get rid of your husband quickly as he is defective and sick and has a huge problem and you are perfect.

      Reply
51. HisEzer on March 31, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    I like your straightforward ness. Yes. I would not want to be in the shoes of the pastors on judgment day who have given marital counseling to my husband and me. (Not insinuating I am sinless by any means but simply that I am driven to take care of failures when they occur and thus have a clean conscience)… I don’t know how some of them sleep at night unless their consciences are already fully seared.

    Reply
    • Aleea on March 31, 2015 at 10:31 pm

      “I am driven to take care of failures when they occur and thus have a clean conscience” – HisEzer, that’s AWESOME that you are driven like that. Good for you!!! If we clean our hearts and keep them clean, God will flow His love into us. The problem is that we live in an absolutely unprecedented day that convicts us of nothing. We are so deep in the culture that we don’t even see it. Iniquity is infirmity; hard core devilry is now just some deficiency; adultery is a simple, normative mistake; rotten covetousness –I address myself here –wanting the comforts that godless women and men want, that is normal desire, normal ambition, -just business. God calls all those idols. We have to beg God to keep us clean and lay aside every weight to run the race that’s before us. . . .As I have said before, I just resort to begging God to help me because I don’t know what else to do, so I just beg Him. Kneeling in the closet begging daily bread (1 John 1:9, John 15:3).

      Guarding your heart & identity: VPN, Router and Hardware Firewalls

      . . .I just wanted to remind everyone to guard your identities, and guard them well. I often go so long without an incident that I start thinking: No one really cares about us Christians out here in the outlands of cyberspace, but hackers/ haters do care. They took two of my identities and my journals, notes, outlines, etc. So now, they are on the journey too –Well, hopefully. . . ha, ha, ha! Just make certain not to link things into your e-mail, –never anything financial! We even see nation-states (often Islamic; Nigerian, etc. –in this case, it was Afghanistan) participating in professional hacking—not some ridiculous high-schoolers, Ph.D.s in boundary functions/ encryption experts. Cybersecurity is almost impossible even with hardware firewalls, let alone just your average software firewalls that most people use.–And yes, I pray for my Barracuda Firewall, VPN Firewall, Router Firewall, and software firewalls but that doesn’t mean the Lord God will set aside the laws which normally govern the Universe. Lots of people just despise Christians and especially Christian women standing up for themselves. I often forget that. . . . Anyway, it actually makes me smile to think about what they got. —Ha, ha, ha. . . .They got an earful but nothing that I wouldn’t say publically or they would probably tolerate reading for very long. . . . . .I have to tell you that all this chaos and lawlessness in the world –And it is always ridiculously grandiose claims from these hackers: “We are back to erase Christians from the Internet, etc.”– all this chaos and lawlessness, sure makes Christianity look a lot better to people who are Burdened and Weary, like so many that are hurting. –So, all our identities rest in the knowledge of who we’re created to be (Matthew 10:39, Luke 9:62). –But the only way to the most important security is every thought in captivity (Proverbs 23:7, 1 Peter 1:13, Philippians 4:8, 2 Corinthians 10:5).

      Reply
52. birdie on March 31, 2015 at 9:40 pm

    If someone says “at least he didn’t go outside of the marriage” they are sadly misinformed. Talk to therapists that deal with sexual addiction & most of the time these men will continue to progress to strip clubs, lap dances, then prostitutes, adulterous affairs. They need more stimuli to continue in their addiction. A therapist that deals strictly with sexual sin stated that 75% of his clients were under age 20! They had become addicted in their pre-teens. Is that not frightening? Its everywhere & now the Internet, phones, tablets, etc. make it so easy. What kind of marriages (if they even marry) will these young men have?

    Reply
53. birdie on March 31, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    When a husband is working on his recovery/healing a wife can feel left out of the process, especially if they are not in joint marriage counseling. The husband is getting better while the wife still feels anger, resentment, etc. Ella Hutchinson has a great article @ Covenant Eyes “What Every Wife of a Sex Addict has a Right to Know About Her Husband’s Recovery.” Because adultery of any kind can cause a Trauma wound for the offended spouse being left out of a husband’s recovery only magnifies feelings like anger, pain, fear, etc. that the wife is dealing with. Her article gives you great advice on what information the wife needs to regain security/safety again. Questions that should be asked & those that need to remain private. Dealing with his recovery group, individual counseling, accountability partner/s.

    Reply
    • Marilyn on March 31, 2015 at 11:16 pm

      Birdie…that is why I got my own counselor and recovery group to work on my feelings of anger, hurt and betrayal. I tried to fix myself, but I needed more. If my husband was sincerely working on his recovery then I would engage in couple’s therapy. We have been to counseling together before and the results were always the same. Husband not doing what they suggest. He would talk in the session, but as soon as we walked out the door he would never mention anything. I don’t concern myself about what he is doing with his counselor or what he discusses with his phone group. When I first went to my counselor, we talked a lot about boundaries and co-dependency. I learned that my healing/recovery has nothing to do what is or isn’t doing. I prayed that God will give me joy despite a seemingly hopeless situation. For years, I put all of my energy into fixing him and the marriage. God wasn’t first in my life anymore. I thought that it was my duty as a “good” christian wife to make things right. My husband never supported me on anything. I wanted to complete my master’s degree 19 years ago, but my husband wasn’t supportive of me getting my bachelor’s degree. I gave up my dream to make him happy. Nothing I did or said was going to make him happy. He’s told me that the one thing that he dislikes about me is that have emotions/feelings and needs. I’m not a needy person, but being a human being makes him feel uncomfortable. For me, I will only go to counseling if he’s sincere about recovery/change. Otherwise, I’m not wasting anymore of my precious life/time. After EMB, he gave me a list of things that he was going to implement. I also gave him a list of things that he must do before I would join him in couple’s counseling. He’s done some things on the list. He picks and chooses like he’s picking things on a menu. I’ve learned with an addict to not believe what they say but only what they do.

      Reply
      • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:36 am

        “I wanted to complete my master’s degree 19 years ago, but my husband wasn’t supportive of me getting my bachelor’s degree. ” maybe there were financial constraints. Women only want men based on the size of their wallets – this has been proven over and over again thru the centuries – including Christian as Christian women are no different, ,any women who denies this is lying

        Reply
54. Debby on April 14, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    I read the article received in my email and then clicked on “Comments” which took me to this official blog site. Somehow there was a technical glich on this site, and the last name was evident on 3/31 above ONE comment. That one has since been cleared. I would appreciate it, Leslie, if you would rescind your comment about my statement being untrue. I was not lying! And I do not want readers to think that I was. Thanks!

    Reply
    • Leslie Vernick on April 14, 2015 at 8:30 pm

      Debby, please take no offense. No one thought you were lying. I just didn’t want the woman to think we ignored her request to take her last name off. We did so immediately, I e-mailed her personally to let her know it was off and so when you posted that it was still on, I checked once again and it was no on the site. Yes there may be a technical glitch which I did write to you privately about to explain why it still showed up in your feed, but I wanted to reassure every person reading the blog that we indeed took care of the problem. No one would think poorly of you – you were just trying to alert us to the problem, I just also wanted readers to be assured that it was no longer up there.

      Reply
55. Anewanon on April 18, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    David,

    I am so sorry that you find this blog so discouraging. I think that you are feeling no hope because you haven’t really accept Christ as your redeemer yet – deep down in your spirit. You haven’t yet truly surrendered. Here’s is why I surmise this …

    First off, much like the FIRST ADAM, you love to bash and blame your former wife
    > so wish she had sat me down and forced me to question the teachings that I was brought up with til married.
    So it was HER fault that you abused her? Because she didn’t sit you down and FORCE you to listen to her? Do you think you really would have listened?
    > My parents and other brethren have stuck with me but obviously the wife has not so there is some appreciation/loyalty there … also would not have been more loving if my wife had said something to me rather than giving up and leaving and saying that in 22 years she never loved me
    The only reason your parents stuck with YOU is because you stuck with them. Sure, they need you to care for them in their old age. But, you were supposed to leave and cleave. Not go back to your parents for validation in a religion that abuses. If you stood up to them and told them that their thinking was all wrong, there would definitely be backlash. ANd you were afraid of that. Perhaps,you wanted your parental “safety net”. But calling out sin is exactly what Jesus called you/me to do for the Pharisees. They don’t want you to turn on the light for them and force them out of their comfortable wrong thinking.

    > as the brethren pounded that into me
    > difficult to think other than what I have been taught
    And now it everyone else’s fault? This is narcissistic thinking, dear. Be a man and take ownership. Maybe you haven’t learned how to do this from a father who never showed you. So, study Jesus and learn from Him. Take a hard look at one of my favorite passages …John 18:4-8… instead of blaming “his bride” (us!), our SECOND ADAM (aka Jesus) defends “his bride” and holds “his bride” BLAMELESS (even though she fell asleep and even though she was gonna deny him aka Peter) .. Then take a look at Ephesians again … And this is what God called YOU to do in Eph 5:25-32. Love her, care for her, hold her BLAMELESS. He placement here on earth was NOT to serve your selfish wants.
    > then why did she marry me and have two kids?
    Because somehow you convinced her that you would love, honor, and cherish her for the rest of her days, You didn’t do that. You failed probably because you failed to depend on Jesus for strength and to look to Jesus to learn how to do that and what that would look like in the first place. Then you blamed her.
    > my wife would now charge me with sexual assault even tho having relations was always her idea!
    Passive aggressive. Denying her any real love or real connection, then blaming her for wanting too much. Ugh.

    David, you need serious help. Help that only GOd can provide. Don’t look here for hope. OPen your Bible and ask God to reveal His truth to you in earnest.

    I am praying for you.

    Reply
    • Anewanon on April 18, 2015 at 6:08 pm

      Can the above post be moved onto David’s string? The Reply button doesn’t always seem to do that. Thank you.

      Reply
      • Leslie Vernick on April 19, 2015 at 8:49 pm

        we’ll see if we can fix that.

        Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 12:07 am

      Holey moley, I am always amazed at how the posters on this site twist my emails. It is posts like yours that caused me to swear off participating but I must have checked off the response box because I still get emails and I cannot believe what I read. Yours takes the cake for you say that I have not accepted the Lord as my savour … which you cannot/should not do as no human can look what is in someone’s heart … btw, I have been saved for close to 50 years now. Reason I get discouraged is the posters are blinded by the rage and hatred of all things male. First off I do not “bash and blame my former wife” … as far as the teachings of the brethren I am 100% at fault I just simply said that I wish my wife had sat down with me as a response to Leslie’s post/statement/question re my wife pleading with me … I was responding to HER that my wife did “not plead” but I wish she had sat me down. I do not know if I would have instantly listened but because she was my wife it would have caused me to question what the brethren had taught me. The reason why I do not have any hope is due to the fact that she (wife) stated several times that she never loved me and lied to many of us for 20+ years and if she thinks like most of these posters then there is no hope for our marriage. Also my parents whom I love and I wish to help them, despite their faults (think they have been brainwashed too) but they do NOT NEED ME as financially they are good thank you – another one of your rude comments and you don’t even KNOW them! It was after my wife left that I got closer to my parents it has NOTHING to do with wanting a “safety net”! Sorry but I found your post to be insulting/degrading/rude/blameful … if you were an employee in one of our companies, you would find yourself in the unemployment line very quickly – your post was not called for. I realize that I am a male so that makes me in these posters eyes an instant pariah. Probably best if you kept your comments/thoughts to yourself. Your post is strong evidence that it is you that has never accepted the Lord … “by their fruits”

      Reply
      • David on April 20, 2015 at 12:12 am

        Nobody is perfect /blameless altho from your post Anewanon you seem to think that you are, may I suggest that you worry about the beam in your eye before jumping on others – it is not wise

        Reply
        • Anewanon on April 20, 2015 at 9:53 am

          Oh dear, and you still think that “had (she) sat me down and forced me to question the teachings that I was brought up with til married”? that it would have any effect… stop blaming Eve. Look to Jesus and take responsibility. Why couldn’t you ask HER how she was feeling about the marriage? Don’t HER feelings matter? WHy is it always ALL about you? Jesus came and said to “take care of my sheep”. He didn’t want you to take care of YOU and YOU alone. Else you WILL BE ALONE. God gave Eve to Adam SO THAT he would not be alone and he called it GOOD.

          Reply
          • David on April 20, 2015 at 10:04 am

            it is like you never read my last two emails. Very, very strange

            
            
            
          • David on April 20, 2015 at 10:07 am

            what part of “First off I do not “bash and blame my former wife” … as far as the teachings of the brethren I am 100% at fault” – what part of that didn’t you understand. You ignored my entire email.

            
            
            
          • David on April 20, 2015 at 10:11 am

            I re-read your post , the stranger it gets. I am not blaming Eve … maybe you should read my post – I cannot be clearer. Furthermore my post was in reply to Leslie’s post, it was not for you – think that may be part of the problem

            
            
            
      • Survivor on April 20, 2015 at 12:23 pm

        David, clearly you are not interested in learning what YOU can do to repair a broken relationship. Your response to Anewanon is very narcissistic in that you are still refusing to accept responsibility for anything and you just want to point out what you think others have done against you. Stop pointing fingers at everyone else and be willing to look at yourself and hear what the Holy Spirit is saying to you and you will be AMAZED at the differences!

        Reply
        • David on April 20, 2015 at 1:01 pm

          Please read all my post, please. The referenced email states very clearly, “First off I do not “bash and blame my former wife” … as far as the teachings of the brethren I am 100% at fault I just simply said that I wish my wife had sat down with me as a response to Leslie’s post/statement/question re my wife pleading with me … I was responding to HER (Leslie’s post) that my wife did “not plead” but I wish she had sat me down. I do not know if I would have instantly listened but because she was my wife it would have caused me to question what the brethren had taught me”

          I do not what else to do as state very very clearly that I am 100% at fault then you turn around and say that I am “refusing to accept responsibility”. I do not understand. Strange. You state, “clearly you are not interested in learning what YOU can do to repair a broken relationship” … I am very very very interested in learning what I can do to repair … as I have stated, many times, yet you say the exact opposite … the extreme opposite … extremely discouraging and maybe this is just a waste of time. I know I should just stop but each time I think that this time will be different. Time after time I get posts like this which makes me wonder if my posts were are even read. If you do not wish to read my posts please do me a favour and just ignore and do not respond. Please.

          Reply
          • Survivor on April 20, 2015 at 2:35 pm

            David, I have read all your posts. I see a pattern. Yes, you SAY that you are 100% at fault. But you follow that with a barrage of stuff to gain pity for yourself, portray yourself as a victim, and look for someone to fix your wife. Leslie gave you good advice: learn something different NOW. You can’t change the past. Quit crying over what you think was wrong in the past and learn something different NOW. That is the way forward. The things that you say when you are ‘taking responsibility’ are SO much like what my abusive husband says when he is trying to elicit a particular response from me. Your words ring very hollow and insincere.

            
            
            
          • David on April 20, 2015 at 3:31 pm

            Hello Survivor. I cannot be more sincere. I am sorry that I remind you of your husband. I came here thinking that was many women that have gone thru what my ex-wife did but I wish to rectify … wished to pick brains but seems I picked the wrong blog as the hurt is still too fresh and the hatred of all males is very , very obvious in the posts but I was hoping that there was one lady who was further along and would give me some insight but instead my emails are not read and/or are twisted so I needs to go as no benefit here.

            
            
            
        • David on April 20, 2015 at 1:06 pm

          re-read your post again … the fingers are pointed directly at myself. I cannot believe tho that a nasty brethren cult and their teachings are my fault … it is not easy to reverse 31 years of brainwashing … thru out childhood … the brethren would say that you and I are false prophets

          Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:42 am

      It all doesn’t matter as she never loved me therefore she lied to me, the kids, my family for 22 years!!!! But according to you it is all my fault!!! Unbelievable!

      Reply
56. Brenda on April 20, 2015 at 8:24 am

    David,

    I don’t know if you realize it or not, but your story keeps changing on the different threads that you have been on and on this one. You have had different stories about these brethren, your relationship with them, about your wife, her expectations and your reaction to that.

    I suggest that you seek counseling.

    Brenda

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:43 am

      My “story” has never changed. Sorry

      Reply
57. David on April 20, 2015 at 9:59 am

    Brenda, sorry to disappoint but my situation/story has never changed – how could it. I have been in counseling for 17 months. I have requested input on my situation, have cajoled, tried the irritation route but no dice then I realized that I am a Christian who believes he has done wrong and wants to determine if ever any hope for my marriage despite my wife saying that she never loved me and I wish to repay my wife for the sacrifice she made for me but this site/blog is all about how to kill a marriage and how to get back at the spouse (usually husband) … in addition have my doubts that this is a Christian site/blog. Scriptures are used but often twisted to suit the purposes/wishes of the blogger.

    Reply
58. Brenda on April 20, 2015 at 10:26 am

    David,
    In one of your prior emails you blamed the brethren as 95% at fault. Which is it? Do you remember what you have said.?

    Being in counseling doesn’t make you well. It means there are things to be worked on.

    Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:06 am

      NO, I did not forget!! The brethren are 95% if not 100% at fault for brainwashing me (and many others) but I am 100% at fault for not questioning. What is so difficult re understanding that?!

      Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:08 am

      Please read my email(s). ie the 2nd to last “Brenda, sorry to disappoint but my situation/story has never changed – how could it. I have been in counseling for 17 months. I have requested input on my situation, have cajoled, tried the irritation route but no dice then I realized that I am a Christian who believes he has done wrong and wants to determine if ever any hope for my marriage despite my wife saying that she never loved me and I wish to repay my wife for the sacrifice she made for me but this site/blog is all about how to kill a marriage and how to get back at the spouse (usually husband) … in addition have my doubts that this is a Christian site/blog. Scriptures are used but often twisted to suit the purposes/wishes of the blogger.”

      Think that explains why I have not ever received anything of value

      Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:14 am

      reason why I mentioned ‘counseling’ was because you suggested that I get counseling!! Think your confused and you accuse me of having a bad memory!!

      Why do none of the comments mention/address my wife saying that in 20+ years she never loved me and lied to many? The posts so far have only taken my posts by clause and twisted them by never ever addressed the real issue/concern. Think I know the reason, my earlier post explained.

      Reply
59. Brenda on April 20, 2015 at 11:16 am

    David,
    I gave you the benefit of the doubt a few weeks ago, but no more. You sound no different than my ex-husband. Who shifts blame back to me no matter what I say. So I don’t speak to him any longer either. I wanted to think that you just needed some compassion, but what you really want is to be the accuser of the people who come here for safety.

    Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:20 am

      no , I want answers but all including you refuse to address the situation … you are so focused on being mad at me

      Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:23 am

      I am not interested in accusing anyone … I am said several times that I am 100% at fault and wish my wife’s comment about never loving me addressed.

      Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:25 am

      Brenda, I re-read my emails/posts to you and do not see where I blame you … you have been very mean to me tho and my issue had never been addressed

      Reply
60. Brenda on April 20, 2015 at 11:27 am

    David,
    No one can answer that but her. The ex-husband always said he loved me but his action told another story.

    Reply
61. Brenda on April 20, 2015 at 11:30 am

    David,
    I was the one that was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I was the one that went online to check out the brethren after never hearing of them before. You came here initially accusing us of being man haters. This is like being on the hamster wheel of abuse. I won’t do it anymore.

    Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 11:42 am

      I have requested input on my situation, have cajoled, tried the irritation route but no dice then I realized that I am a Christian who believes he has done wrong and wants to determine if ever any hope for my marriage despite my wife saying that she never loved me and I wish to repay my wife for the sacrifice she made for me but this site/blog is all about how to kill a marriage and how to get back at the spouse (usually husband) … in addition have my doubts that this is a Christian site/blog. Scriptures are used but often twisted to suit the purposes/wishes of the blogger.”

      Reply
      • Leonie on April 20, 2015 at 1:55 pm

        Brenda, The narcissist is someone who will stab you and leave you on the side of the road bleeding and dying and walk away feeling sorry for himself.
        I heard a (podcast) sermon recently about narcissists and the text the pastor was preaching from was
        2 Tim. 3:1-5 and he called them “unappeasable”
        This resonated with a lot of my experiences – the narcissist defines reality is different from you & I. This changes everything into a game where you & I don’t understand rhe rules & they keep changing to suit the narcissist.

        Reply
62. Dewwy on April 20, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    Can we get this whole David thing off of this thread? I’m starting to feel very uncomfortable about it.

    Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 3:34 pm

      I have requested input on my situation, have cajoled, tried the irritation route but no dice then I realized that I am a Christian who believes he has done wrong and wants to determine if ever any hope for my marriage despite my wife saying that she never loved me and I wish to repay my wife for the sacrifice she made for me but this site/blog is all about how to kill a marriage and how to get back at the spouse (usually husband) … in addition have my doubts that this is a Christian site/blog. Scriptures are used but often twisted to suit the purposes/wishes of the blogger.”

      Reply
63. Dewwy on April 20, 2015 at 3:11 pm

    Why is this David thing still going on on this thread? It is obvious that it is not healthy or helpful. Can someone stop this??

    Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 3:35 pm

      I have requested input on my situation, have cajoled, tried the irritation route but no dice then I realized that I am a Christian who believes he has done wrong and wants to determine if ever any hope for my marriage despite my wife saying that she never loved me and I wish to repay my wife for the sacrifice she made for me but this site/blog is all about how to kill a marriage and how to get back at the spouse (usually husband) … in addition have my doubts that this is a Christian site/blog. Scriptures are used but often twisted to suit the purposes/wishes of the blogger.”

      Reply
      • Leslie Vernick on April 21, 2015 at 12:27 pm

        David, I think you have gotten plenty of input on your situation – some quite compassionate, other’s not so much. However, you continue to fling daggers at this community by saying scriptures are twisted, wondering if we are true Christians, etc. questioning our commitment to God, being biased against men, etc. I will give you my two cents. You are way too focused on being a victim of your wife’s hurtful words “I never loved you” and not willing to look at your own self. You are doing the same thing in this blog. You are the victim here, we are the ones in the wrong. That tends to be your outlook on things and I think you would get healthier if you just tended the log in your own eye.

        Reply
        • Laura Di on April 27, 2015 at 2:40 pm

          Dear Leslie,

          I have not checked the blog for a few days and today is the first time I am introduced to this particular subject line. I actually started to hyperventilate because I mistakenly thought after reading numerous entries I was one of the compassionate respondents to David. It seems now from some backtracking it was Geoff that I gave some understanding to, and so realizing that mistaken notion I was given a sense of relief. Truth is David’s sad vengeance against this community stirs up some awful memories. The feelings are almost a symbiotic connective recollection of what I feel most of us sharing here are trying hard to heal. I do understand that we all need to be charitable and that your allowing David to contribute can produce much thought provoking material. Unfortunately I think David is quite unChristian like and has a sawmills number of logs in his eyes leaving the rest of us are pulling out painful splinters as a result of his logging activities. I sure hope that with God’s words to ponder and recognized maybe David’s responses will scatter like sawdust!

          Thank you so much Leslie for your supportive work to help me and others seeking understanding of these difficult subjects. May God continue to Bless you in continuing this vocation. May God’s blessing protect all who truly need this ministry from anything of an abusive nature.

          Warm regards,
          Laurie

          Reply
          • Laura Di on April 27, 2015 at 2:43 pm

            Noticed some typos and punctuation errors…LOL

            
            
            
          • Leslie Vernick on April 28, 2015 at 7:19 pm

            I agree David is a troubled soul, but most of the time I leave his comments in tact because they represent so much of what you do have to deal with when dealing with destructive individuals. I think it’s a good opportunity for you to practice CORE strength and speaking up for yourself, for one another and for truth.

            
            
            
        • David on June 8, 2015 at 10:51 am

          Nobody wishes to address the fact that my wife lied to many including me for 20+ years. That by far and away is the biggest issue

          Reply
          • Leslie on June 12, 2015 at 2:11 pm

            David, we can’t address why your wife lied. She is not on this blog. People do things for many reasons and hopefully she is addressing the reasons why she was not honest. Was it fear? Was it she was told she was supposed to get married. Who knows. But healthy people live in truth and reality and so if your wife never loved you, for you to move on, you have to accept it.

            
            
            
64. Brenda on April 20, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Dewwy,
    I think he has been on more than one.

    Reply
    • David on April 20, 2015 at 3:36 pm

      I have been on 2 but both were same … no help.I have requested input on my situation, have cajoled, tried the irritation route but no dice then I realized that I am a Christian who believes he has done wrong and wants to determine if ever any hope for my marriage despite my wife saying that she never loved me and I wish to repay my wife for the sacrifice she made for me but this site/blog is all about how to kill a marriage and how to get back at the spouse (usually husband) … in addition have my doubts that this is a Christian site/blog. Scriptures are used but often twisted to suit the purposes/wishes of the blogger.”

      Reply
    • David on April 28, 2015 at 8:03 pm

      I am only troubled because my questions go unanswered so I have given up

      Reply
65. Brenda on April 21, 2015 at 7:37 am

    Yesterday morning, I found out that my daughter had given birth prematurely during the night after being in the hospital for 2 days after her water broke. The docs were giving hope that Tiny Mikey had a good chance of survival and each day was adding to his chances. He lived for only a few minutes and went to be with the Lord. He was too small for the tubing to give him oxygen and his lungs underdeveloped at just shy of 23 weeks. He will have birth and death certificates for those few minutes of his life. My daughter said that he was so handsome and they did take a few pictures. My heart is breaking for my kids that were looking so forward to being parents and for the loss of Mikey and David. This is the 2nd child that my daughter has lost in 18 years, David at 9 months and Mikey after a few minutes. She has no others and was told she would not be able to have more after the 1st.

    When I woke up this morning and the song “Because of Him” came to mind, I was joyful realizing that I will see both of them in Heaven and they are with Jesus as I write this out.

    The next thing I thought about was that when David passed and I was wailing in sorrow for the loss of my grandson that the xh instructed me not to cry so I didn’t upset others. When we went to bed that night, he decided that was a good time for sex. I cried through the whole thing and laid there as if my spirit had left my body, a completely dead body. When he was done, he rolled over, had a cigarette and went to sleep. I cried throughout the rest of the night. As much sorrow as I feel for my family this morning, I no longer have the sorrow of a narcissist in my life. He has had nothing to do with this experience since he is not my daughters dad and she feels no connection to him. I have felt love and compassion from my online family and my church family. I have felt love in my prayers and know God is holding my tears. I hope he has a couple of buckets handy.

    Reply
    • Leonie on April 21, 2015 at 8:43 am

      Brenda, I am so sorry to hear your sad news. My heart is breaking for you. You & your daughter are in my prayers.
      Yes, it is a daily relief to have left someone who treated us so terribly & not at all in alignment with the truth. God made us valuable & demonstared it through his Son Jesus! You do have a great hope & you will see both your grandsons one day!

      Reply
    • Loretta P on April 21, 2015 at 12:09 pm

      I’m so sorry for your lost and that your XH didn’t have the insight to have compassion on your lost. What a major loss for your daughter and for you! I’m so sorry! I can only send you a hug and prayers. As someone who lost babies I know the deep emotional pain that loss brings. You need time to heal and freedom from a man that is only using you. God loves you as a special daughter dear to his heart!

      Reply
    • Leslie Vernick on April 21, 2015 at 12:19 pm

      I’m so sorry these things are the hardest to trust God with. I remember when the woman who said we could adopt her baby gave him to someone else. I fell apart. It was so hard to trust God with why? Why would he allow us to get close to the desire of our heart, only to rip it from our hands. I don’t know if your daughter is struggling with those same feelings, but I will pray that she is stronger than I was and able to trust he is good, even when she can’t possibly understand his ways.

      Reply
    • Laura Di on April 27, 2015 at 3:28 pm

      Dear Brenda,

      I have not check the blog lately and just saw the sad news. Please know heartfelt sorrow and prayer is being offered for all. I have no idea of the pain you are experiencing and ask God to ease all the struggles that are being faced at this sad time. I hope that moments of peace can still enter into the situations with this most difficult why.

      Many God’s peace and love surround you.

      Laurie

      Reply
    • Sandra on April 27, 2015 at 4:06 pm

      Dear Brenda: I can relate to your loss, as my granddaughter Crystal gave birth to a stillborn several years ago, and I was there, since the baby’s father was already out of the picture, and her mother, my daughter, was living out of state. A few days later, my daughter arrived, and we had a funeral for the baby boy. Crystal also had an abortion a few years previous to this still birth, and I know I’ll meet both babies in heaven. Since we have this blessed hope, it helps to ease our grief and increases our longing for eternity as well. Sending my love and prayers to you, Sandra

      Reply
66. Brenda on April 21, 2015 at 1:56 pm

    Leslie,
    I’m so sorry. That is just as painful as losing a child. In your heart that baby was already yours.

    My daughter seems to be ok. They were so surprised when they found out. They went into marriage thinking there was NO possibility of getting pregnant. It didn’t take them long to have a house being purchased and half of what they needed in baby furnishings and supplies. My daughter fully intended to call the hospital room home before it was all over, but God had other plans. She has already been asked if they will try again. She said, “who was trying”. Rightfully so considering her circumstances.

    We don’t any of us understand, but I choose to accept. It has been a rough few days, but I am sure the kids and I will all come through this with a little time and a lot of prayer.

    Reply
67. Ann on April 21, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    I’ve been praying for family members who are struggling with trusting God since my niece died after being married less than 24 hours. Brenda, praying for you, so hard to lose a child. Glad you don’t have to hear anything from your x about this.

    Reply
68. Debby on April 21, 2015 at 11:39 pm

    Brenda, I am so sorry for your earthly loss. Draw near to the LORD. He completely understands the depth of your grief. He is the God of all comfort. There is a 3″x5″ devotional book called, “The ONE YEAR book of Hope” by Nancy Guthrie. Her newborn died, which is the reason she wrote this book. It has been very helpful to me, as it deals with losses of various kinds and grief, etc. It is a very therapeutic book!

    Reply
69. Debby on April 21, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    David, and others who have commented on this site: victim, controller, pleaser, vascillator, and avoider are aspects of each of us. Knowing how much of each, we each are, is helpful to understanding how we relate to people. Do the online test and see your results on howwelove.com. The book and cd’s are by Milan and Kay Yerkovich. The paperback version has a workbook in the back, while the hardback book does not. It is another “tool”, like Leslie’s book is, that I have found helpful.

    Reply
70. Brenda on April 22, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Debby,
    Thank you. I think I might pick up a copy or 4 and pass them on.

    Reply
71. Brenda on April 22, 2015 at 8:42 am

    Ann,
    I have heard about that kind of thing happening more frequently. One of the newlyweds dies after one day or less. I will pray with you. I am losing faith, it may be bringing me closer to Him, but when I saw something that I see God doing His work in, she does not respond. I know it has been just a couple of days, but not trusting God can grow quickly. My SIL is not a believer. He was not raised in church. He is a good man, but not a God fearing one. I am asking all for prayers for them.

    Reply
72. Brenda on April 27, 2015 at 1:51 pm

    Well said, Leslie.

    I personally never told anyone about the sexual abuse portion in the marriage. I was too ashamed and was very misguided as to what I “owed” him. The things that were done to me are not things that I even like to think about much less tell anyone and leave them with the visuals in their heads. It is bad enough that I can remember them. No one should have these experiences.

    I have a friend that has been through the same types of experiences and we talk and cry about what we have been through. I also went through sexual abuse as a child, which she did not experience, Praise God. Both of us were abused in many other ways and still feel some of the long term affects of the abuse and neglect. Neither of us are in any hurry to get ourselves into another evil relationship or even a good one. It is too scary.

    Reply
73. Allie on April 29, 2015 at 5:09 am

    The sexual abuse hasn’t happened in a couple of years. We have been separated off and on for other issues the past 2 years also. I do believe that my husband wants to change, but the thought and behavioral patterns ingrained in him at a young age that lead to the abuse have been very difficult to overcome. In the middle of the time period of the abuse, I sought out an abuse counselor. She did a thorough psychological evaluation on me and determined that I had PTSD and had dissociated severely- but not to the point of multiple personalities, but it was severe. She did not have to tell me, I lived it. She was a secular counselor, and a great one, but it really broke my heart that I could not find one book or article or anything about this subject. I felt so alone- I felt like a freak. Humiliated, ashamed, embarrassed. I thank you, Leslie for your bravery in tackling this subject. I do know that it happens more often than we think because just like me, I kept it hidden because of my shame and because I felt I had no one, especially in the faith community to talk to. It was only after the last abusive episode that I literally felt my mind break that I sought secular counseling.

    Reply
74. Brenda on April 29, 2015 at 5:31 am

    Allie,
    There are so many things that our family and church families do not want us to talk about. I went to an MS seminar last night. A woman who has had MS for all of her adult life spoke after the doctor for the night spoke. She was told by her family and church family not to speak of this. If she was sick, it was certainly because of her sin and lack of faith. Over time they did come around, but she went through an emotional valley through that experience. How much more do we go through because of abuse of any kind. I have never gone into detail with anyone other than I have been sexually abused as a child and as an adult. I would like to get it out, but I have kept it between me and God. I know that others do the same. Beth Moore is one. She doesn’t want to leave the visual in others minds of what she went through as a child. I really think if we all would point out what really did happen perhaps there might be an outcry for this sin to be squashed. But we are told not to tell. That has been my life. Deep seeded guilty share by the man who started the hamster wheel of abuse in my life. I know that I made poor decisions in the men in my life after childhood, but that sin warped my mind for a very long time. There is a verse about causing little ones to sin. I think that could also mean causing them to make wrong decisions in life..

    Reply
75. Brenda on April 29, 2015 at 9:13 am

    Many thanks to those of your who addressed your sympathies over the loss of my grandson. My daughter and her husband of course are grieving there loss, but have new hope that they may be able to conceive again during the next few months. When she went for her check up on Monday, she was greeted with lots of literature and a plan of action. There are lots of tests going to be done in another 3 weeks and new hope has entered into their hearts. We can’t bring Mikey back, but have the assurance that he is with Jesus with his older brother David at this very moment. Many blessings and prayers to you all.

    Brenda

    Reply
76. Abigail on May 18, 2015 at 10:10 pm

    Yes, this could have been written by me too. The marital interaction, the church response, my own response, the crazy dive into research and knowledge that no one else was interested in, the return to the church to ask for help again with information in hand, which was just filed away and never mentioned. Today, I am in a different church that is much more knowledgeable and engaged, offering real help and genuine concern, helping me learn to set boundaries and keep them and to see a worth in myself. But the old church still condemns me and disdains me for my “victimhood” and calls me a “malcontent” for leaving their congregation. Very defensive.

    There is so little spiritual maturity even among the leadership of so many of our churches. How did that come to be? And it isn’t due to youth. These are OLD men who still have no wisdom to deal well with real situations like this, and like mine.

    Reply
77. AbusedNoMore on June 4, 2015 at 3:13 pm

    As I scrolled through all the comments, it’s alarming the number of women who are sexually abused in their marriages. I too, was abused, and my now ex-husband used every manipulative tactic he could muster to turn it all back around on me, including that ‘The bible says that the man is superior and the womans body belongs to him’… one night as he was on one of his tyrades about it, even asked me who the hell I thought I was thinking that my body belonged to me or something along those lines. He had a very ugly side, and then would take us to church, sing along with the hymns and act like they were really reaching him, he would take communion, would allow our son to take it (sadly, my son is an admitted non-believer, but at the time he was early teens, unbaptized, and going along with our requests to go to church, youth group, and pray), but wouldn’t allow me to because he didn’t feel like I had truly given my heart over to the Lord. I was always so confused because for so long I admired my husband…. now he is in a relationship with the girl who was my best friend (yes, affair was being had), who had been dating my sister for several years.
    Today, I am happy, relieved…. and I breathe freely. The man I a. With now is a true man and would never hurt me, thank you, God.
    It is really scary when you are in that situation, especially when you first come to the realization of what’s been happening to you. After years of being told I was being abused and just not listening, when I had my moment of clarification, it was like being sucker punched in the gut. Your head spins, your heart races… you’re mind is tumbling out of control. But, you get there. You find your footing, and you come out ok. We now know that our Lord doesn’t want anyone going through this, and only the sick, twisted individuals will interpret the word that way. One of the last things I said to my husband was ‘Go ahead and keep lying. You’re not hurting me with them, and, at the end of the day, the only one you need to convince is God, and he already knows’.

    Reply
78. Brenda on June 4, 2015 at 5:15 pm

    AbusedNoMore,

    ‘the only one you need to convince is God, and he already knows ”

    I love this. I am so glad that you found your way free and have found a good man. God is so good to us, isn’t He. : )

    Brenda ‘

    Reply
79. Susanne on June 5, 2015 at 8:36 am

    Thank you for that story, I can relate to what you have experienced, I too was sexual and physical abuse, my husband is addicted to porn was and still an alcoholic .he would be abusive me so bad that I didn’t know which way to go, he threw a cigarette on neck and burn twenty five percent , took a Hammer and hit my left arm and on March on this year he took his fist and buried my left face, we went to court they had a bench warrant on previous to that the judge told him he has did more 30th an days, go pay the clerk the Court fine and you are a free man, but I was mad but an order of protection on him, but through all this god is so good , I’m out of it happy with my 2 wonderful children, I getting a divorce, but never will get married again, never!

    Reply
80. Brenda on June 6, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    Victoria,
    Although, I work for a good Christian man and our office is usually pretty quiet, I jump at the least little thing. If he walks in my office, I jump. I know he is the only one there, but that doesn’t stop it. At home, if my cat jumps on the bed, I jump. It doesn’t take much at all. I don’t like crowds no matter where it is. I don’t feel comfortable at all. More often than not when people try to talk to me I cannot get the words from brain to mouth. That is in part an MS problem, but I don’t want to explain that to everyone I meet either. I’m not sure if I would know true love, outside of my relationship with God, if it came up and hit me in the head. It would be nice to find out though.
    Brenda

    Reply
81. Sandra on June 7, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    Dear Brenda, My heart and prayers go out for you that our Lord will give you the love and peace only He can give. Even if He doesn’t provide another companion for you, just remember that Jesus is your true husband, and will never leave you, and HE is in control of your life, even your MS. —and most of all, you have the blessed hope of eternal life with Him, where you will be totally healthy, mind, body and spirit. May the peace of Christ rule in your heart. Colossians 3:15
    Sandra

    Reply
82. Sandra on June 7, 2015 at 2:06 pm

    Victoria, I can relate about the abuse/sex scenario, because I believe my xh got a “high” when he verbally abused me, and as with yours, expected me to later respond sexually. When I could not, he’d tell me I was “a cold fish,” and to blame for his impotence! I’m celebrating freedom from this craziness, now that I’m safely divorced (even though my former church believes it’s not to be celebrated).
    Blessings, Sandra

    Reply
83. Brenda on June 8, 2015 at 6:54 am

    Sandra,
    Oh, yes Sandra. Jesus is my true h and look forward to meeting Him face to face. In the meantime I am not really looking for a man and God would probably have to put him in my path with no way to avoid him if I were ever to get into another relationship here on Earth. If I even think of that possibility, the memories come flooding back and I move on to other thoughts. Jesus is the only one that hasn’t and won’t ever cheat, abuse or die!!

    “Cold fish”, I’m sure you weren’t that, very much the same way I wasn’t. Please though, if h wanted a physically intimate relationship don’t abuse me first and expect that I am going to react to your advances in a healthy way. Don’t hurt me during the event and think I am enjoying it as you are. I don’t want to take the risk of this happening again.

    Brenda

    Reply
84. Brenda on June 8, 2015 at 9:33 am

    David,
    Is that your advice to someone who has been sexually abused? Separate and stay permanently attached to this evil person? Divorce not required?

    I find your comment unbiblical. Do you not understand that sexual immorality is a grave sin against another?

    I am so glad that I have a loving God that understands and releases us from these covenants that are far from the love we have been promised.
    Brenda

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 11:01 am

      Yes, separate and work with the husband. Never give up. There is only one reason to divorce to disobey God’s word, give up and marry (try again and see if you can get a better husband)

      Reply
85. Brenda on June 8, 2015 at 9:38 am

    David,
    You have just called a woman shallow and unchristian, for choosing not to be abandoned in her own home. I think you owe her an apology and if you have nothing respectful to inject into the conversation. perhaps as my mother always said, “If you have nothing good to say, don’t say anything at all.”
    Brenda

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 11:03 am

      No it would not be right, honest to apologize for stating the truth. Sorry but I will not conform to your twisted view of the Bible

      Reply
86. Brenda on June 8, 2015 at 10:32 am

    Leslie,
    Isn’t this the same David that was telling us that his wife left because he was withholding sex from her. It seems his story is changing and not contributing in a healthy way.
    Brenda

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 11:07 am

      Yes, it is the same David. My story has never changed. My upbringing was that sex in marriage is wrong. But just as well that was not having relations with my wife as I found out after she lied to many including me that she never loved me anyways. Besides as we all know, women do not like anyways so what is the big deal!? Weird

      Reply
87. Victoria on June 8, 2015 at 11:47 am

    Leslie, Is there any way we can block “David” from this blog? He seems to enjoy arguing with women, especially vulnerable ones. This is actually a trait that seems to be common with abusers. Why are we feeding his twisted ego? I use this blog as a safe place but “David” is not safe. Please consider my request so the rest of us can assist in each other’s healing.

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 2:20 pm

      By safe you mean no males

      Reply
88. David on June 8, 2015 at 2:17 pm

    Wonder why nobody addresses the fact that my wife lied for over 20+ years and cannot explain why she married me and had 2 kids. I have tried on here for a long time but these women just berate me etc but refuse to answer my question

    Reply
89. David on June 8, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    No need to block me just answer/ address my question.

    Reply
90. Victoria on June 8, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    Thanks for proving my point. By the way, David, I’m guessing your wife told you MANY times but you refused to listen & take responsibility. So, she stopped talking & gave up. You may have mistakenly assumed that she was then “submitting” to your will. Now go get yourself some help & leave us alone.

    Reply
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 3:47 pm

      No!! She never told me. When she left she enlightened me then that needs to be honest now and that she has been lying for decades. No women wants to answer this question but just wants me to go away

      Reply
91. David on June 8, 2015 at 3:48 pm

    What point did I prove!?

    Reply
92. David on June 8, 2015 at 3:51 pm

    From my perspective I have asked a question many, many times and explain myself just as much but no women on this blog wishes to address my wives actions which have hurt many, it is not just men that are bad. Again, my question needs to be answered

    Reply
93. David on June 8, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    I’m guessing that the reason my question has never been answered on this blog despite me asking for some time is due to the fact that nobody has a credible answer … nobody on this blog believes that a man cannot be entirely at fault.

    Reply
94. Leonie on June 8, 2015 at 7:35 pm

    David, get over yourself. How would any of us know why your wife did what she did except in response to the same nonsense we have seen from you on this blog.
    Are you waiting for one of us to blame your wife too?

    Reply
    • Victoria on June 8, 2015 at 7:54 pm

      Amen!!! It seems like that’s what he’s here for. I’m frustrated already & I haven’t even met him…much less lived with him. I can’t imagine!!! There’s no empathy…no compassion…for those of us that are dealing with our pain openingly…which is a sign of not really listening…just a never ending circular conversation…I don’t sense any introspection…& no desire to…BTW….here’s an insight on women…..these are ALL very UNATTRACTIVE traits in a man.

      Reply
      • David on June 8, 2015 at 8:28 pm

        “much less lived with him.” no worries as despite what you think you only have 50% of choice and I wouldn’t have chosen you

        Reply
        • Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 1:29 pm

          YAY!

          Reply
          • Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 1:30 pm

            It’s really good to know that I’m repelling unhealthy men now verses attracting them. Thanks David!

            
            
            
    • David on June 8, 2015 at 8:26 pm

      still no answer to my question – this would be funny if not so serious. Not surprised tho as I am a male.

      Reply
95. Ann on June 8, 2015 at 7:45 pm

    I agree Abusednomore. Lundy’s book was a real eye opener for me and his book “Should I Leave of Should I Go” (I think that is the title) was also very helpful.

    Reply
    • Loretta P on June 8, 2015 at 8:03 pm

      I just finished the book Why does he do that by Lundy. Excellent!!! I only wish I’d had it about 30 years ago!!! It was still a smack up the side of the head for me. It’s so difficult when you’ve spent your life trying to keep the H calm and not raging at you, worrying over his every mood. It’s time for me to heal and him to sweat. I’m working on leaving.

      Reply
      • Victoria on June 8, 2015 at 8:22 pm

        I agree, I read it shortly after I moved out…while he was out of town….the only way to do it…no more mind games…or shallow promises…I didn’t recognized the name @ 1st. But the sub title is “Inside the minds of angry & controlling men” that does. I stumbled upon it @ the library. I cried, felt angry, stupid & relieved…that it wasn’t just in my head.

        Reply
      • David on June 8, 2015 at 8:34 pm

        “It’s time for me to heal and him to sweat.” Really!? That’s not a proper Christian attitude … to get him back

        Reply
        • Leslie Vernick on June 9, 2015 at 11:22 am

          It may be time for her to heal and time for him to do his own work. Perhaps her choice of words felt derogatory but she can’t fix him, she can only work on her own attitudes, her own thinking, her own walk with God and leave her husband to do his own work. Most women I know are fixers, over-functioners and have spent years trying to rescue their spouse and “fix” him or help him or love him enough. It hasn’t worked. It doesn’t work. Even Jesus couldn’t “make” the Pharisee’s change. He couldn’t love them enough to “make” them lower their pride and humble themselves to see the truth. Eventually he left them to their own foolishness and pride and that’s sometimes what’s necessary for one’s own safety and sanity.

          Reply
96. Brenda on June 8, 2015 at 8:20 pm

    Victoria,
    I gave him the benefit of the doubt a couple of months ago and have lived to regret it. I’m done. He has some serious issues and doesn’t want to listen to anyone. There are men in other blogs that listen and get the woman’s perspective and appreciate it. David is not among them. I find what he has said today enormous red flags and very unattractive.
    Brenda

    Reply
97. David on June 8, 2015 at 8:30 pm

    all these comments and not one response. Guess on here all men are bad and all women or perfect lol!

    Reply
    • Leslie Vernick on June 9, 2015 at 11:24 am

      David do you ever re-read your comments and see how derogatory you sound? If you want to continue to comment, I want you to work on being constructive and humble, not arrogant and accusatory. That attitude is not glorifying to God.

      Reply
98. David on June 8, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    Guess if my wife had all of your attitudes it wouldn’t make any difference how much I changed or what restitution for all the pain I caused … I wouldn’t stand a chance … the standard attitude on here is I hate my husband, if he needs help or is sick I don’t care because I am perfect and I will get him back (“make him sweat”).

    Reply
    • Leslie Vernick on June 9, 2015 at 11:19 am

      David that’s not true. No one claims to be perfect nor do they hate their husband. Obviously he needs help or they would not be describing destructive and abusive behaviors. The problem isn’t that he needs help or that they think they are perfect. The problem is that he isn’t getting help and continues to be destructive, accusatory, blaming and shaming as you just did in your response. If any one of these women’s husbands would have humbled himself, had been willing to do the HARD work at getting his thinking and attitude and behaviors healthy and godly, and made amends for the pain he caused by being patient with the reconciliation process while new trust and new marital patterns were developed, I don’t believe any of these women would have gotten divorced. Tell me David, what help are you now getting for the things you have done to hurt your wife? What work have you done for yourself instead of blaming and accusing others?

      Reply
      • David on June 9, 2015 at 2:02 pm

        ‎I am not sure how I hurt, as she never told me, just feel that I did, so I immediately started counseling with 4 pastors, 3 Christian counselors, reading much but all moot if she as said several times that she never loved /cared for me, said that I was a “very good  guy, great Dad … Never cheated on her, attractive  etc” but she now after 20+ years needs to be honest “the kids will be mad when they find out”. Long term love is a choice but seems she has confused with the feeling/lust. I am sorry for some of the things that I have said in this blog but I am bitter and confused as well as cannot believe many of the things that have been said in this blog. It certainly comes across as very hateful towards men/husbands, also my question was never addressed which raises a number of red flags.

        Reply
99. AbusedNoMore on June 8, 2015 at 8:41 pm

    It felt like the hugest sucker gut punch ever delivered. When you’re not being physically abused, and you’re not educated on all the other abuses, it’s so hard to put your finger on what’s going on. The examples Lundy gives are spot on. Figured out I was married to the ‘Water Torturer’. Such a relief that it wasn’t me going crazy as he tried to make me think so much. Wasn’t me being mean as he attempted to point out so many times… once I started calling him out on his behaviors after I read the book, be about lost his mind. It took many more devastations, but, I’m out and free. I hope that for all the ladies here…. whether the freedom comes from being able to repair your marriage together and getting back to why you got married in the first place, or, from breaking free from the abusive marriage. You all deserve so much better. God bless you all.

    Reply
    • Victoria on June 8, 2015 at 8:56 pm

      Abusednomore…we do the best we can with what we have…or in this case…know. I thought I was doing the right thing…what God wanted me to. But I was miserable. I’m glad I got help & worked on my issues…mostly codependency. I had a really screwed up idea of what love was.

      Reply
100. Victoria on June 8, 2015 at 8:41 pm

     The facts are: This is a blog about the article “Sexual Abuse in Marriage – A Real Life Experience”. I believe your frustration is self imposed as you’re on the wrong blog.

     Reply
     • Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 1:34 pm

       This comment was for our “Mr. Wonderful” that won’t go away not all you lovely growing ladies.

       Reply
101. AbusedNoMore on June 8, 2015 at 8:57 pm

     I wish you the best of luck! Trust me, it’s so much better on the other side. I now have a man who is everything my H was not, and he doesn’t even have to try, it’s just who be is naturally. He’s never demeaning or condescending towards me or anyone. I am so happy now and everyone who knows me can see it in me every day. I’m no longer starving myself from stress, I walk freely, I WANT to come home every day, I WANT to spend time with him.
     Take your time if you decide to find someone else after everything is over. Don’t wander right back into the same comfortable position with someone else. Work on you and your relationship with God. Get your head straight on what you are and aren’t looking for. Get happy with being with you so you can be happy and be yourself with someone else, and try not to carry that baggage to them. They should be understanding, but shouldn’t be punished because of what these monsters put us through.

     Reply
     • Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 5:55 am

       Well said & congratulations. God really does bring beauty from ashes.

       Reply
102. MG on June 9, 2015 at 4:51 am

     Yes. I have experienced sexual abuse in marriage. I got married in 2013 and he abandoned the marriage in 2014. I was a virgin and excited to share this wonderful gift. Though he was saved, his unhealed sex addict ways showed itself on our wedding night..instead of being loving, gentle, patient slow and caring he was selfish, self centered and threatened to have relationships outside of marriage if I couldn’t “hurry up already”…..instead of feeling blissfully loved I felt used. He constantly viewed porn and would leave in the middle of the night. He refused kisses, hugs or any normal newlywedded affections. He even suggested adding partners to our marriage. I tried to be loving, caring and available but it was always rejected except to get his own needs met. I never felt physically forced to have sex but he would constantly threaten divorce on the very few occasions (4 occasions when I really didn’t want to) He used me for my beauty and virginity and then moved on with other relationships refusing to get help for his problem. I’m so glad we are divorced and that I’m truly free to be with a true man of God….I forgive this man and his evil ways and I also forgive the mistresses who interfered as well. I wish my dream wasn’t shattered but am grateful for Gods restoration.

     Reply
103. Monica on June 9, 2015 at 7:18 am

     I am completely blown away as I have sit here and read all these comments. I never stopped to think that maybe I was not the only one. Some of the scenarios come straight from my experiences, since sexual abuse in marriage is not something that is often talked about I had no clue. For me, if I didn’t give in on an at least daily basis my life was a living hell. We are separated at the present time and my days are so much better because if it. I had this idea that it was my obligation as his wife to do what he wanted, coupled with the fact that things went better for me if I just gave in. In one comment I read that she felt like a prostitute in her marriage and I can commiserate so much, it’s a sad situation to be sure. Its getting better though and with God’s help I know that I can get thru this.

     Reply
104. Sandra on June 9, 2015 at 11:39 am

     I believe David is deeply emotionally disturbed and needs therapy. However, this blog is meant for abused Christian women, who are supportive of one another, and he should seek help in another venue.
     Sandra

     Reply
     • David on June 9, 2015 at 1:30 pm

       I have been in therapy for over 2 yrs. I would indeed go but find it humorous that all these women refuse to answer my question but I refuse to give up and wish to see how far these women will go to refuse to address my question but are very quick to throw stones at me!!

       Reply
       • Mary on June 9, 2015 at 3:46 pm

         What specific question David? I’ll give replying a go – I think you need some help from what I’ve (only, sorry) skimmed – this is a lengthy blog

         Reply
105. Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 1:13 pm

     you go girl! Enjoy rediscovering yourself as God meant you to be.

     Reply
106. Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 4:54 pm

     David, What were your expectations when you started on this blog about an article titled “Sexual Abuse Marriage: A Real Experience”?

     Reply
     • David on June 9, 2015 at 5:34 pm

       Had asked my question the last blog and just continued with this , so no expectations at all just trying to get an answer still no response so now it is an experiment to see how long this group will avoid my question!!

       Reply
107. Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 5:51 pm

     So your expectation is for us to answer a question that has nothing to do with the article “Sexual Abuse in Marriage: A Real Life Experience?

     Reply
108. AbusedNoMore on June 9, 2015 at 6:10 pm

     David, none of us can answer your question as to why your wife handled the situation like she did or treated you like she did. You posed that question to a group of women who were so committed to making their marriages work that we stayed in toxic, verbally, mentally, emotionally, physically, and sexually abusive relationships for up to 50 years… we lived in our own situations and still can’t answer the ‘why’ of it all.
     You say your wife sprung all of this on you out of nowhere… I can empathize with you and say it hurts. It sucks, and there may never be an answer as to why it happened. My suggestion to you is to get away from who you were turning to for counseling in the brethren you spoke of. If all they want to do is brainwash you and you know this, then it’s time to say this church/cult/society isn’t working out for you. It doesn’t mean you have to turn away from God… maybe just find a different way to turn to him. Find a good actual Bible based church. Also, get some (more) counseling from someone who is an actual professional. You may have to shop them to find the best fit for you, but find one who can help you with all the hurt and confusion you’re feeling. One that can help you with most or all of the issues you’re having, and be committed to it. Accept that sometimes you may never get the answer to why, and find a way to deal with that and move it. You’re obviously hurt and just grasping for answers, but they’re answers that none of us here ade equipped to handle. We’re not man bashers or haters; as I said, we’ve all stayes in horrible situations because we love/loved our husbands and just wanted to make them happy. You will hear us say that a lot of the things are 100% our husbands faults, but that doesn’t equate to bashing or hating males. It means that, yes, the men we are or were married to WERE 100% to blame for the abuse. You should never expect an abused person to take any blame for that. We’re also not saying every male out there is like that, and not saying you’re like that, either. I only read a little of the back and forth between you and the other ladies on here, and I can see where some of your comments raised the hair on the backs of their necks, getting the same feeling we would get when the crap started at home… not saying everything you said was that way. I think you’re an injured confused man who is just lost right now. That’s normal given the situation you’re in. I urge to get the help you need to be able to let your wife go. If she doesn’t love you, as much as it sucks, as much as it hurts, as confusing as it is, there’s a 99% chance you can’t change that, and you’re only option is to move on with your life. It’s what your kids would want for you, it’s what your family and loved ones want from you. And, t7he best way to ‘get back’ at your wife is to go on to lead a good, healthy, happy life. But, you need help with dealing with the pain and confusion from all of your past life. Doesn’t mean you’re weak or any less of a man, it just means you’re man enough to say ‘Help me, please’.
     It can get better. My story is this in a semi-small (at least as small as it can be) nutshell; I married a man who I thought was amazing. He could do no wrong in my eyes and I adored him. I ended up with a female condition that made sex very painful and having anymore kids beyond our first impossible. My husband took offense to me withdrawing from painful sex and raped me, sexually tortured me, demeaned and ridiculed me… made my life such hell that I was praying that they find out my condition was cancer and just have it kill me. He did this for years. Once I wisened up to what he was doing, he amplified the abuse to knock me off of my high horse. Now, on the sidelines I had my sister, who is my very best friend, and I had my very best friend to lean on. My sister (who is a lesbian) and my very best friend started dating and were together for 5 years. In Sept 2013, I found out that when my sister and I went out of town that June to bury my aunt who, obviously, had just passed away, this very best friend, the girl who I trusted with my life and who was dating my sister, drove 40 miles to my house and stayed the weekend with my husband. The day I found out, they had been together in the backseat of her car for an early morning rendezvous. And now, according to him, her, his mother, her mother, I’m the most horrible person in the world because I stopped putting up with his nonsense, and stood up for myself through the divorce. You see, in his mind, the man was the master, and even though I had worked the entire time we were together, since he was the man who God put in charge, I didn’t deserve anything and I should have been happy with whatever he was gracious enough to give me, even if it was something that belonged to me anyway. When I stood my ground, it upset him, and when he’s upset, he’s very good at playing a victim, which the girlfriend, and mothers both ate up hook, line and sinker. At the end of the day, when he tried bullying me with the court system, and tried emotionally extorting me, I won and got half…. so, you see, many of us have WHY questions. I’ll never have an answer as to why I was done the way I was… I will admit I wasn’t a total angel, but, I know I didn’t deserve what I got. Maybe this was Gods way of knocking some sense into me… IDK. But, I’ll never have my answer, and it took some time, but, I’m ok with it now.
     Good luck!

     Reply
     • Victoria on June 9, 2015 at 6:50 pm

       Abusenomore….you’ve been through a lot. And I can relate to some of it especially the “when I stood my ground…he played the victim…his mom & other women in his life ate it up”. Ya know, that’s the thing,,,they’ll always fond someone else to enable them when we stop. That use to make me mad…& sad…cuz it wasn’t me. But I got over it eventually, as I found my own trusted support group & people that were @ least working on getting healthy. And you will too. Your unhealthy radar will kick in stronger & stronger as you grow, as you learn the difference between healthy & unhealthy behavior. It sure did for me. Now if someone is mixed up in someone else’s games & drama I think ” that’s so sad & such a waste of time & energy.”. & I’m grateful that’s not my life anymore. Keep up the good work & leaning on God the best husband ever.

       Reply
     • David on June 10, 2015 at 3:46 pm

       First of all, thank you, thank you, thank you for addressing my question. My situation seems hopeless, a rhetorical question and do NOT expect an answer, but way would she marry me and take 20+ years of my let alone the kids, my family, her family and even herself. Most women, believe that it is not true that she didn’t love me and must be something that I have done or didn’t do. BTW the counselors are professionals, at least their charging me $210 per hr!
       I want to go on to have a fruitful life but I want my wife to be part of, especially to benefit from the financial upside

       Reply
       • David on June 10, 2015 at 3:49 pm

         BTW, your husband sounds like a real piece of work – even to me

         Reply
         • AbusedNoMore on June 10, 2015 at 9:01 pm

           David, some people are just outright selfish and ruthless. Or, maybe your wife was confused, thought she loved you, but had no idea what love was… or, maybe she did love you after all, but is in a place right now that she can’t say that. But, be thankful for the years you had… be thankful you have what are hopefully beautiful children from that union. As much as I despise my ex, I’m so thankful for the son I have and the amazing young man he has become… if you look at that, it’s not wasted or stolen time, it’s a gift. A beautiful, wonderful, amazing gift from God. Accept and appreciate that gift. And yes, the therapists aren’t cheap… especially if you don’t have insurance (not sure if you do or not, just saying it). But, there are other ways. Find a non-demoninational church to go to. See if the church fits you, then see what kind of free counseling services they offer.
           Like I said before, there will probably never be an answer to your ‘why’, but you have to find a way to be OK with that. Letting go of the hurt and anger is the only way you’re going to move on. Pray to God for guidance, he will hear you and guide you, you just have to listen to Him. But, you have to accept that your wife no longer wants to be married to you. You have to hear it and accept it, learn from it, and then let it all go after you’ve gotten through that mourning period. Yes, there will be more mourning as you realize the finalization of it all. But, if you don’t process and move, you’re going to live in that mourning period and live it over and over and over and over. That’s no way to live… it’s not living, it’s merely existing. Make the choice to live! Live like God wants you to. Live like your kids want you to. But you have to live! I promise, if you want it and work for it, it will get sooooo much better for you! It won’t be easy, but it will get easier.
           Finally, yes my ex is quite a piece of work. As with all the ladies here. This is why they’re all so shell shocked and get defensive when it sounds like you’re saying we’re in the wrong for blaming them and getting out of the marriage. But, we want to live too! And the lives we’re describing here wasn’t living… it was barely existing in a hell on earth. We didn’t decide one day that we just didn’t love them; we loved them beyond faults and constantly tried to change for them and they wouldn’t accept the love we WANTED to give them. So, none of the ladies on here can be compared to your wife, these women are survivors and should be commended for what they’ve endured.
           Look into the free counseling I mentioned. Help is out there, you just have to keep looking, keep praying. If you mean it, God will guide you to where you need to be.

           Reply
           • David on June 11, 2015 at 9:00 am

             I like your 2nd opinion “or, maybe she did love you after all, but is in a place right now that she can’t say that. “

             
             
             
109. AbusedNoMore on June 9, 2015 at 8:24 pm

     Thank you! I had been through a lot, and I’m in such a better place now. I have an amazing man who loves me and is everything my ex wasn’t. I’m so happy now… a friend short, but, with those types of friends, who needs enemies? It was her choice to give up two people who loved her as much as my sister and I did… when he does to her what he did to me, she might realize what she gave up to have it. But, thank you. It sounds like you’re in a much better place now. I’m so happy for you and anyone who breaks this cycle. Whether they’re able to get through to their husbands, or, just get away from them. We all deserve to be treated with love and respect.

     Reply
110. Sandra on June 10, 2015 at 2:16 pm

     God bless you, Victoria, for replying to David’s taunts in a much kinder manner than I could have. He certainly does need help, but in more depth than we can offer here. I’m so sorry you had to endure such abuse from your xh, as well as your so-called best friend. Thank God you were able to leave and now have found the happiness you deserve. Sandra

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 10, 2015 at 9:08 pm

       I think your comment was meant for me (since you referenced best friend ), so thank you. I try to adress everyone I ‘meet’ in a way that they will hopefully be open to hearing and listening to. I feel for people suffering with a broken heart and I feel their pain with them. I hope David is able to get the help he needs. God bless.

       Reply
111. Sandra on June 10, 2015 at 2:21 pm

     P.S.: Sorry, I meant to address my previous note to Abusednomore, who so kindly replied to David, as well as Victoria. Blessings to you both!
     Sandra

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 10, 2015 at 9:08 pm

       Oops, just saw your follow up #

       Reply
112. Victoria on June 10, 2015 at 2:25 pm

     Sandra, I think that maybe you have me & Abusednomore mixed up. But I totally agree with you, she did an awesome job and she’s has been through a lot. Abusednomore you are growing into a wonderful women. God has already used you & what you’ve learn in the pain in a mighty way. I can’t wait to see how He uses you to minister to others.

     Reply
113. Sandra on June 10, 2015 at 2:31 pm

     David, it’s obvious we are unable to answer your question on this blog, so you definitely need to go elsewhere. My guess is that your wife didn’t really know you when she married you, and found out later that it was more like “being in love with love.” Unfortunately, that’s what happened to me.
     Seek a Christian therapist for help, rather than lurking on this blog.

     Reply
     • David on June 10, 2015 at 3:37 pm

       Many, many writers (not just Christian) have stated that regardless of the reasons you married you should love the one you found, that is Biblical rather hurting many. Thanks for input

       Reply
       • Mary on June 10, 2015 at 4:36 pm

         From my own situation I would agree with you here David, although I know many would disagree – but in learning how to love the one God gave me I have found the resources which enable – and this is NOT against my will, believe me – I have not been brainwashed. I have, at the risk of sounding sanctimonious and “holier-than-thou” (I would never ‘judge’ a sister who decided to do otherwise) – found out more about myself and my own soul – I know this sounds selfish – but I do understand the point that David is trying to make because I know it would be the standpoint of my husband too, 20 – something years ago when I had no idea how I was going to carry on having hit a brick wall in the dark…… I will worship God for all eternity for showing me things I had no clue needed addressing…… The common conclusion amongst those who would not understand my journey is that I have become a smothered doormat – but I don’t care what others say – I know the truth about what God has done in my life that only He could do, and what I truly desired underneath the “dross” that was affecting both of our lives. As a result I now have a different man than the awful way things could have turned out – one who listens to me, loves me more than any other could ever do – really loves me, so there is no need for me to even contemplate the option of leaving or looking elsewhere for my deepest needs to be met – which is what marriage was ordained for in the first place. Yes, it is hard and it is humbling, but it is also empowering in many, many other ways, when surrendered into God’s hands, more gets healed than just the marriage.. God is still in the miracle-working business, I count my blessings every day that we have not been reduced to ruin, which was the way it could have turned out except for God’s intervention – which I know I didn’t deserve (because of other stuff) – but God does know our hearts, and where there is a will there is a way. If there appears to be no way, we have to consult our will and ask God to change/strengthen it if it doesn’t appear strong enough…….. don’t throw stones at me – I’ve been through it and – only by grace – have come out the other side, older, wiser and more in love with both my husbands (Isaiah 54 + notes on this in the Amplified Bible) “Your Maker is your husband” – etc.

         Reply
         • Leslie Vernick on June 10, 2015 at 6:47 pm

           Sounds like you were able to stay well and God taught you so much. For those who leave well, God also teaches them in their journey. For those who stay and resent and are bitter and feel like a smothered doormat, they aren’t glorifying God in that choice nor are those who leave and are bitter, resentful and angry.

           Reply
           • Mary on June 11, 2015 at 1:57 am

             Actually Leslie, I did not stay well at all. I went through what was given to me as a diagnosis: “an acute schizophrenic attack” – and until I got the help I knew was out there (but didn’t know how to access), it got worse than that. But it is a long story that is full of horrid stuff I cannot go into here – all I know is that I will never be able to forget it – but that does not matter because of the healing that has since taken place – I am not the person I was back then because God has remade us both. I agree that bitterness and resentment in staying is not glorifying to God, absolutely. But there is another way, including separating where possible (that is totally an option that is God-honouring too – but which was not possible in my circumstances). God does not leave us helpless/hopeless, He always has more for us – good more, not hurt more.:)

             
             
             
         • Mary on June 11, 2015 at 2:07 am

           Wish to make a slight correction about what I wrote above about why marriage was ordained (I wrote “for our deepest needs to be met”) – not quite true, of course, because it is only God himself who can do that – but has ordained marriage to contain within it the promise/hope/vision that we all set out to achieve on entering it – that we will be loved for who we are. Being human beings that fall short gets in the way of this. And being Christian human beings who still fall short – that is our challenge/opportunity – as Leonard Cohen sings: “There is a gap in everything, that’s how the light gets in” – how true that is.

           Reply
           • David on June 11, 2015 at 8:56 am

             Separation not divorce, yes, I agree!!

             
             
             
         • David on June 11, 2015 at 8:54 am

           Mary, the you for your post. I have read several times. I hope my wife thinks and does like you and not ‘give up’. I also believe that God is still in the miracle business and with God all things are possible. Again, thank you

           Reply
           • Mary on June 11, 2015 at 12:40 pm

             Us women, David, when we find ourselves in a situation that we know our husband is primarily responsible for causing (despite what “advice” church leadership gives) also know that we cannot continue in the status quo without a willingness to change on his side. I haven’t read your whole story as to whether you’ve had proper counselling or not, but have put a website here where the best can be found (although in NZ not America) – Skype counselling is available and CD/DVD resources too. It is what literally has saved our future, our marriage and my sanity. I totally commend http://www.livingwisdom.co.nz to you and wish/hope/pray for the very best outcome for you both 🙂

             
             
             
114. Victoria on June 10, 2015 at 6:55 pm

     Mary, So are telling us that there’s been sexual abuse in your marriage?

     Reply
     • Mary on June 11, 2015 at 1:59 am

       Yes

       Reply
115. AbusedNoMore on June 10, 2015 at 9:36 pm

     Wow, thank you. You literally brought tears to my eyes. The kind words from all of you mean so much. Thank you!

     Reply
116. Brenda on June 11, 2015 at 7:32 am

     Abusednomore,

     Thank you for your heart felt response to David. There have been a couple of others, also, that have brought me to tears. It is so true, we would not be here if the “marriage” hadn’t gone terribly wrong. We gave all we could and more until there was nothing left. Separation and/or divorce was the final boundary. I think that would mark a good book title, “The Final Boundary”. Perhaps I’ll start writing. I have a lot of feelings on how difficult that step is and know that others have a lot to contribute.
     Brenda

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 12, 2015 at 10:58 am

       Thank you for your kind words. And yes, that would be an awesome book and I would absolutely buy it. Maybe we should get a bunch of us ladies together and we can all tell our stories in a book. Bring more awareness to the topic! To shut me up, my ex had so many tactics. He would tell me that he doesn’t see anything wrong with a husband forcing himself on his wife, and told me that if he had a daughter or ever found out it was happening to his mother, as long as they were married, he would have no problem with it at all. He would come home and tell me that he’s discussed it with a friend and the friend told him that in the state we lived in, it was not illegal for a man to rape his wife. His mother would tell me stories of how his father would do that to her and they eventually divorced, but would then tell me her son was only doing it because he loved me when I would run away.
       I didn’t know any better; not for a long time.
       God bless you and best of luck in your healing process. It’s so amazing and free once you no longer live in that atmosphere.

       Reply
117. Sandra on June 11, 2015 at 10:53 am

     Since it appears David is against divorce for any reason (much like my former church), as I have written previously, I didn’t want to divorce, and stayed and prayed for my xh for 57 years. However, the abuse didn’t change, but only got worse, until he’s the one who finally left. Since he kept threatening to return, after two break-ins at our home while I was away, I finally had to file a protection order, due to my fear of him. He recently decided to move near my daughter, only an hour drive from where I now live, which then gave me impetus to finally file for divorce, so he could no longer “claim” me. Thank the Lord, I’m finally FREE!
     Blessings, Sandra

     Reply
     • Victoria on June 11, 2015 at 12:04 pm

       You go girl! Some Christians are legalists no matter what. And again without empathy, compassion or understanding. My decision was not one I made lightly or quickly. He’d get me a small morsel that would give me some hope and there we were again, going around the abuse cycle.I struggled with my grief process for probably 10 years. Some people are just not teachable. They’re selfish & very manipulative. Will do anything, say anything to get what they want regardless of how it may affect anyone else. Yes even & unfortunately Christians are sometimes worse. In my case things got worse the more responsibility he was given at church. He was unrecognizable up there leading worship. It was not the person we lived with for sure. He loved going to counseling as long as all we talked about was how I was disappointing him & I needed to be less independent & submit more. Once again I was a crying mess & he was giddy as we left each time. I thought “Shoot! I can get this @ home!” But the minute his issues can up (I found more porn) he refused to go. Go figure! I had resolved myself to stay after 29 years of hell but the more he tried to control the more out of control he got. When I discovered yet more lying and sneeky underhandedness I was done.

       Reply
       • Mary on June 11, 2015 at 12:45 pm

         I’m so very sorry Victoria for your experience, and agree with you that the Christians can be the worst – you were so right to leave, because that was no marriage in the sense you had the right to expect. I hope that the woundedness you experienced is healing. Blessings 🙂

         Reply
118. Victoria on June 11, 2015 at 1:26 pm

     I’m confused. Are there 2 Marys? Or just one playing both sides against the middle.?

     Reply
     • David on June 11, 2015 at 1:34 pm

       Assume you are upset with Mary because she refused to give up?

       Reply
       • AbusedNoMore on June 12, 2015 at 10:38 am

         See, David, why are you antagonizing these women? It’s a legitimate question as ‘Mary’ states divorce isn’t an option, then ‘Mary’ states she did the right thing by leaving. They’re trying to figure out if it’s two different Mary’s or the same one saying two totally different things.

         No one is upset with Mary because she stayed and did not divorce. None of us is saying divorce is the one and only answer here. If you can’t accept that some of us were just pushed beyond our limits and we shouldn’t have to live like that. And, at the end of the day, each and every one of us only has the Lord who we have to answer to.

         So, I ask you, very nicely, to please not instigate fights with or antagonize the ladies here. We have all been through enough, and really done need someone who has no clue what we really went through sitting back and baiting us into a stupid online battle. I have been nothing but respectful and compassionate to you from day 1, so I ask you to please leave these ladies be. Allow us to heal the best way we can.

         Reply
         • David on June 12, 2015 at 11:10 am

           Not my intent to antagonize anyone but get them to think – about putting themselves in the shoes of a contrite husband who loves his wife much. Mary was kind to me – the only one after a very very long time that took the time to address my issue (despite me being a male)instead of just throwing stones at me so it crossed my mind that Mary was being vilified just because she refused to give up – that’s all.

           Reply
         • David on June 12, 2015 at 11:15 am

           “we shouldn’t have to live like that.”
           the Lord did not have to go to the cross but he did and I drive cancer patients for their treatments ie surgery, rad, chemo etc and they shouldn’t have to live like that either. Need to look at the long-term , big picture and it is not just about ourselves, sometimes as Christians we should sacrifice ourselves for others/greater good.

           Reply
           • AbusedNoMore on June 12, 2015 at 12:30 pm

             Take a look back. I have been nothing but nice to you and even tried to answer your question the best I could.

             David, we all went into these marriages thinking, hoping, expecting, wanting them to be forever. What you’re not grasping is that these men were awful to us… one post on here said she stayed in it for 57 years… FIFTY SEVEN YEARS of being abused. And let me give you a tiny insight on just a little of my torment entailed… it’s not just that husband wanted intimacy a lot, my husband wanted and expected up to 5 times a day. If he went 48 hours with nothing, be became MEAN! He shoved me down on the bed and physically took what he wanted while I tried to defend myself. Some days, he would use items and shove them in me, while holding me down, stating that (referring to the size of them items) this is what he felt I needed to satisfy me. Reminder, I a female condition that made all of the actions feel like someone had a knife and just continuously stabbing me in my abdomen. Sometimes I couldn’t walk for close to 30 minutes because of the pain he caused me. I would wake up to him forcing oral sex on me… This is a very broad example of what happened to me, and I can guarantee that most of the ladies on here have more than likely endured way worse than that. You can’t tell me we’re supposed to accept this and work with the man? So, 57 years of staying with him, going through counseling, asking, begging, pleading for it all to stop, I think that was working with the man. At some point, enough is enough. Imagine if you will your daughter, sister, mother being put through this treatment… you would still insist they have no right to get out? The long term, these men could have killed us. The long term could be us finally killing ourselves because the stress, anxiety, pain, depression, confusion, etc, gets to be just more than we can possibly handle. We too are human beings. Don’t compare us to Jesus, we will never be him. Don’t compare us to cancer patients, they don’t have a choice, it’s not something they can figure they’ve had enough of and walk away.

             And, with this, David, I think maybe this could be part of your wifes problem with the marriage… you think your way is the only way, and it doesn’t appear that you’ll make any adjustment in your thoughts. It doesn’t appear that you can remove yourself from your own feelings and think for one second about how another person is feeling or what they’re going through. If you can’t recognize that, it will never change and you’ll be stuck in the same mental anguish you’re in today. Think about your children… what if they were in the same type of hell any one of us was in. Would you tell them to stay and deal with it? There is no way a real parent would ever seriously answer yes to that question.

             And finally, I think the main reason your defending Mary isn’t because she was nice to you, because I have only been nice and very empathetic to you, but it’s only for the reason that she agreed with you. And lastly, again, no one was even attacking Mary. There is confusion on whether there is one or two Mary’s, so, there was no reason, what-so-ever that Mary had to be defended. I think we can all say that we’re happy for Mary if she was able to resolve her situation without divorce, and is living abuse free and happy. It’s a blessing if that worked for her and she and her husband are working together on the marriage. I’m sure we all wish our story would have turned out that way too. We all love the happily ever after endings, but don’t tell us we were wrong because we had to save our own lives.

             
             
             
           • Mary2 on June 12, 2015 at 6:19 pm

             This is primarily for David – my story is of someone who married very young, the person who I absolutely knew God wanted me to marry….. I had been raised by an ‘unhealed-at-the-necessary-level’ single Pentecostal fundamentalist man-hater and was not allowed to know my father “for my own protection” as I was told. Of course, I had deep-seated issues that needed to be addressed and dragged out of my subconscious where they had been stuffed because of the pain of not being able to relate to God how I believed I should be able to, due to the mis-beliefs in my soul that were preventing this. Similarly my husband had his own emotional issues stemming from his non-Christian controlling and unaffectionate mother – the mix was a cross-match of bruises that we just did not know how to negotiate.- or even realise why we had ceased to be able to communicate to build a relationship our children could see we were both joyously committed to with no hypocrisy/resignation. It was not all give/sacrifice on my part – God would not put that burden onto any woman – and He knew the work that was required to be done in us both. After the pain of “what happened” we have been able slowly to re-build, each from our still-differing perspectives (as we are all unique individuals) a life of mutual respect, affection and gratitude to God for His faithfulness to us when we needed proper guidance. Total honesty needed – I am glad to read you describe yourself as contrite, that is admirable – but you cannot therefore expect or demand from your wife that she consents to live with you until she is completely convinced in her own heart, mind and soul that you are a changed person and that you genuinely have her best interests at heart. In order for this to happen there has to be a willingness to dialogue towards this end, and deeper insight which releases the forgiveness and hope without which nothing can get rebuilt. No guilt-trips/mind-games/unrealistic expectations……and if she is at all open to this sort of counselling that will give her the insight she needs into her own ways I pray that you will find a counsellor equipped for the job. The person whose site I mentioned deals with each spouse separately to get their own issues healed, before even suggesting they should consider renewing the proximity of their living arrangements. I do pray the Lord will help you both to see we are no longer under law but under grace, what that really, really means – it is difficult to see it when we were brought up in what amounts to a cultish atmosphere 🙂

             
             
             
119. Brenda on June 11, 2015 at 1:40 pm

     Victoria,
     I was scratching my head on that one also.
     Brenda

     Reply
120. Victoria on June 11, 2015 at 2:17 pm

     Yeah Sandra, I wondered if anyone else was gonna catch that. ?? I’ve spent enough time with Dr Jeckle & Mr Hyde. I want no more of it!

     Reply
121. Mary 2 on June 11, 2015 at 9:53 pm

     Yes, I’m sorry – there are 2 Mary’s. I only saw this site a couple of days ago – someone called Mary got in before me. I shall be Mary2 🙂

     Reply
122. Sandra on June 12, 2015 at 1:01 pm

     Thank you, dear Abusednomore, for this heartfelt message to David. As I said when he first started to invade this wonderful support group, “He just doesn’t get it!”

     God certainly doesn’t expect anyone to stay married to a monster, as your xh and many others are. I’m sure David will then say to separate, but don’t divorce. However, how safe would we feel until we’re legally free of their craziness? Even though my divorce was recently finalized, my xh is still asking our daughters where I am, and I’m fearful of him. In fact, my therapist said I still may have to file a protection order against him.
     God bless and keep you and all our other dear “sisters” too. Sandra

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 12, 2015 at 1:35 pm

       That is awful that you still have to live in fear… it’s just not fair. Please be vigilant, and learn how to protect yourself. Take courses on self defense. Worst case, learn to shoot. I’m terrifed of guns and prefer not to go that route, but, my son and boyfriend are urging me to at least take a class and lessons. I strongly urge you to consider all your options and make the decision that’s best for you and your comfort level. Get an alarm system, make friends with your neighbors and come up with an SOS signal… (porch light on during the day or off at night means that you are in danger. Something quirky with the window curtains or blinds.. Something like that.) I will pray that you remain safe and that you eventually come into your peace as I have. You deserve to be safe and happy. God has his hand on you and will guide you through this. It takes some time.

       How do your daughters respond to him? Are they aware of the situation and know you need to be safe, and that they shouldn’t share any information about you?

       Reply
123. Sandra on June 12, 2015 at 1:05 pm

     A huge “AMEN!” to you, dear Abusednomore!
     Sandra

     Reply
124. Victoria on June 12, 2015 at 2:25 pm

     Some the thoughts:
     Abusednomore: I would like to give you a hugh hug and say I’m sorry you went through so much hell on earth. Did you ever report him to the police? I imagine you’re not the first or the last or the only women he raped.
     2) I’ve learned many things but two really big ones for me are: You can’t MAKE someone love you (or even care about you) and you can’t MAKE someone get help.
     3) Also: Acceptance is a process, a grief process. It rarely happens overbite. It’s grieving all the wishes & dreams you had. It’s rarely a straight line through the different stages of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression & acceptance. (Did I miss any?) David, you are stuck in your grief process. And until you grief it ALL & stop trying to get answers for your whys, you’ll remain stuck. I know, cuz I’ve been there. I can wear myself out, physically & mentally trying to analize the crap out of things rather that just accepting things as they are. I hope you find peace someday.

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 14, 2015 at 10:17 am

       Victoria, no, I never reported. I just existed in life, and once the marriage was over, I was just relieved. The female he is with now is the girl who was my very best friend for over 8 years, and was in a relationship with my sister for 5 years of that. She was the one I finally turned to and told all the gory details. She still made the conscious decision that, in her exact words, ‘I feel like I’m losing the two best things that have ever happened in my life, (meaning my sister and myself), but, it’s worth it. I won’t bring that behavior out in him.’ So, she knew the cage she was stepping into. I just hope she right and was worth the loss of two people who would have given their lives to protect her.

       Reply
125. Brenda on June 12, 2015 at 3:01 pm

     AbusedNoMore,

     I have reread your post a couple of times and words fail me. I have a vision in my head of a creature so hideous and sinister covered by a thin covering that looks like it might be human. That is how I see the man who did these things to you. How these thoughts even come to one’s mind, I do not comprehend. I find myself saying those words a lot lately. How do these thoughts come to a person’s mind? I am so sorry that you have experienced these things. This goes beyond marital rape, you were tortured.

     Why does a person do or say the things they do? There is no definitive answer. No one has the right to use our bodies in a harmful way or without our permission. God does not expect us to stay or reconcile with such as this. There was nothing God honoring in this brutality.

     ((((HUGS)))) Brenda

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 14, 2015 at 10:04 am

       Thank you, Brenda. Your words mean a lot. It was a terrible life to live, but, through the horror of it all, I am so thankful to be free and clear from him. He’s got a front to put up on how great a guy he is, so, I don’t have to worry that he’s going to bother me. The separation consisted of bullying and emotional torment, but, the day the divorce became final, he went on and I became free.

       As bad as my story is, I truly believe so many have had it so much worse, and those are who I worry over. I found peace with my life once he was no longer a part of it, some have their husbands still using that power to abuse them and hold them captive. Those are the ones I pray for.

       Reply
126. Victoria on June 12, 2015 at 3:45 pm

     Amen Brenda! Pure evil….twisted mind….pure evil!

     Reply
127. Victoria on June 12, 2015 at 3:47 pm

     I praise our loving heavenly Father for delivering you from this monster. I pray He continues to protect you & your children. Amen & amen.

     Reply
128. Sandra on June 13, 2015 at 1:04 pm

     Thank you for your concern and advice regarding my xh being a continued threat. In fact, he’s moving back here to NC this weekend, near my younger daughter, only an hour away from where I live! My daughters know the fear I have of him, and have told him I’m still living with my sister in SC. However, he told them he doubts that, so how long will it be before he learns the truth? I live in a senior apartment complex, with a security system, but he could easily pass through the door behind another tenant. I have recently put a note on my apartment door that I cannot respond to knocking, and for visitors to call me first. The door also has a peek-through. My daughters think I’m exaggerating this fear and that he won’t bother me. I keep praying and trusting the Lord for His care, most of all.
     Blessings, Sandra

     Reply
129. Brenda on June 13, 2015 at 1:18 pm

     Sandra,
     My xh found out where I was a week after I left. I had to update my information with the company I work for and they sent a notice to both addresses. He let me know right away that he knew and it was eerie hearing him recite my new address. I didn’t have any idea about protecting myself. Looking back on it, I should have had my mail sent to a PO Box. Beware of your surroundings when you are coming or going. Has he made any direct threats? Are there people in your building that you can show a picture to so they can be aware. I left a picture, license plate number and vehicle description in the apartment complex office when I moved in. I know how scary this is for you. I’ve been there. Ultimately, I had to find my strength in my Savior and you will too. Praying for you, Brenda

     Reply
130. Sue on June 14, 2015 at 6:47 am

     It’s so sad for me to realize I am not the only woman who has lived an abusive life as a Christian. My marriage began with an unplanned pregnancy, the result of what I now realized was sexual abuse following “date rape” beginning at age 14. My mother knew what was happening in our own home, but for whatever reason did not step in to rescue me. My “boyfriend” would drive me home from church services then force himself on me before leaving. I never experienced dating, interacting with other males. I was brain washed into believing that once the sex act took place between myself and a male my fate was sealed. No other male would want me as his wife. For that reason alone, well shame as well, I married as a teen. In my heart I determined to live my life devoted to my husband as the best Christian wife I could be. We have been married for 46 years, most a living hell filled with physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. He was diagnosed with a mental illness in our 20 year of marriage. On medication his behaviors improved. I threatened to leave if the physical abuse continued. That stopped, but verbal abuse as well as sexual abuse continued. He wasn’t violent but instead insisted on sex acts that repulsed me and left me feeling dirty and used. Finally I prayed telling God that I could no longer tolerate it. I even told God I would not be upset if he lost the ability to have sex. Soon after that, due to health issues, he was no longer able to preform. We’re still together, although he left 2 years ago for 6 weeks. He went to live with a family member. While he was gone, I saw a lawyer about divorcing. The lawyer insisted we wait 90 days before filling. In my home state the law causes limitations to divorce. He returned to the housing we shared, by the laws of this state I had to allow him entrance. So, my freedom was short lived. I’m writing for the benefit of anyone who is young, or with young children. My children and grandchildren won’t allow me to be part of their lives. As children grow up in the presence of abuse, they identify with the abuser rejecting the abused parent later in life. I stayed in my marriage, tried to be a wife that pleased God. I had no close friends, family members or others in my life. I’m now a senior citizen who is totally alone. I sacrificed my life praying, believing, hoping that my husband’s eyes would be opened and that he would love ME, the real me. Don’t make the mistake I made, you’ll be left with nothing and no one. God is my husband. He supplies every need and takes good care of me, but I grieve for all that I’ve lost.

     Reply
131. Victoria on June 14, 2015 at 1:31 pm

     Abusednomore, My guess is they’re in the honeymoon stage of the abuse cycle. From my experience, it’s when the women starts having needs of her own or if she’s sick, or says no for any reason THAT’s when their abusive side starts showing up & escalating. I know it hurt for you & your sister to loose this women in your lives. I am sorry for that loss. But @ the same time her comments sound arrogant & that maybe she might believe his lies that his abuse was your fault. Oh brother! She sounds very confused sexually etc. You & your sister are better off. I know that doesn’t make the grieving process any easier, in fact those unhealthy lost relationships seem even harder to get over. Hugs & prayers to you.

     Reply
     • AbusedNoMore on June 16, 2015 at 3:54 pm

       Thank you, Victoria. It is all still painful, but, I’m ok with it. I think it’s her loss and there is nothing that she can throw at me to make me ever believe my sister nor myself ever did anything to her to make this ok in anyones mind. It’s something she’ll have to live with, and something that may haunt her forever, especially if or when those same behaviors he gave me, he throws at her. I, myself, am in a much better place than I was 2 years ago. My sister is happy. My son, although he loves and respects us equally, seems much more relaxed now that there is no consistent tension in the house. I’m a friend short, but, that wasn’t by my doing (according to everyone except her, my ex and his mother who all stand by the statement that if I lost a friend in this, it’s all my doing and on me, because she still wanted and expected to be my friend after this).
       Sick people. And yes, honeymoon of the abuse is a perfect way to describe it. Just wait until the honeymoon of the phase that comes from breaking out of it… once you’re free from the abuse, be it because they actually changed, or because you got out… it’s quite amazing!

       Reply
132. Karlene on June 16, 2015 at 7:40 pm

     I read that women are not to use sex as a weapon on their husbands. I interpret it to mean that they are not to withhold sex from the man if he hurt her emotionally or does something she does not agree with, but she is to love him unconditionally. Its not that women want to withhold sex from their husbands when the husband upsets the woman or fail speak the language she understands. Its just a natural reaction that happens. It feels like rape for a woman to give her body to her husband, when during the day he has done nothing to contribute to her emotional well being. Sex is not just physical its also very mental and emotional. It seems like our men needs re-educating on how to love a woman.
     God will hold wives responsible who gives into every desire from their husbands. Its a sin to indulge a man in sex when he desires and however he desires it. eventually he looks down on the wife that gives into his every whim. He eventually begins to wonder if she gives into him in this way, surely she can give into another man the same way, since she is so submissive.
     So women as much as possible don’t give into your husbands every desire, remember we are fallen beings and marriage does not make his desires for sex sanctified, it gives him more license to do as he please, but we must by God;s grace put a stop to it. As God tells us we must do all t hings to his glory and excessive sex is not to the glory of God it robs our bodies of vital force. I’m so glad to hear so many of you are recovering from abuse to God be the glory! May he teach us to speak up the minute we see something off and try our best to speak to our husbands regarding ways they can be better lovers to us, sometimes that’s what some of them need.

     Reply
     • David on June 17, 2015 at 10:40 am

       My wife left me because I did not have enough sex with her. So why is it OK for a wife to withhold but not the husband? Seems like a double standard

       Reply
133. Victoria on June 16, 2015 at 9:01 pm

     Abusenomore, You are worth so much more than what you’ve had & I’m glad you’re in a better place now. When I saw the abuse cycle wheel for the first time it put words to what I was experiencing. Although it didn’t escalate to near what yours did, it was abuse still the same. I’m convinced that if not for a counselor instructing me how to stop the sexual abuse, it would have gotten worse. I took myself out of the equation by reacting differently…without xh knowledge. I just didn’t know I could….didn’t know I had any other choice. I was way too emotionally involved, I couldn’t see any other way of doing things. This website has a perfect word pucture of the abuse cycle & wheel. http://www.ashleighspatienceproject.com/abuse-types-and-cycle-wheel.html

     Reply
     • Loretta P on June 16, 2015 at 11:10 pm

       That cycle of abuse sure is the pattern of my marriage. I’m working on leaving. Not easy after 40 years . I’m breaking out of the abuse cycle.
       Thanks for sharing that article.

       Reply
134. Brenda on June 17, 2015 at 9:23 am

     Sue,
     You are a beautiful soul and have experienced so many lies that lead you to 46 years of hell and isolation. I would think that in itself would be legal grounds for divorce and freedom. I am glad that God gave you the desire of your heart and hope that your husband didn’t take his inability out on you in another way.

     I have experience sexual abuse since being a small child and at 58 have just begin to know my worth as a beloved daughter of the King. I pray that you feel His loving arms around you, dear Sister.
     ((((HUGS))))Brenda

     Reply
135. Brenda on June 17, 2015 at 10:06 am

     Tom.
     I can’t tell you how much your words meant to me as tears of joy run down my cheeks. More for God to collect!! I have read the passage in Ephesians on so many occasions and different translations and just picked up the Bible on my desk to reread. I agree with you, the emphasis is on the husband and the covenant was broken from the beginning. I no longer feel that I was ever truly married. I have also not felt that any “good” man will ever want me in a very long time. Like the woman at the well, the only man that really loved her, at that point, was Jesus and at 58 prospects are limited. I have not dared pray for a godly man to come my way believing that we only get so many chances and mine are used up. Jesus has become my husband as well as my Savior, friend and my God.

     Blessings to you for your loving words of comfort and your prayers. I will not forget what you have said. ((((HUGS)))) Brenda

     Reply
136. Brenda on June 17, 2015 at 10:49 am

     David,
     I think the reason “why” sex is not happening is the question that needs answering, not whether it is the husband or wife that is withholding.
     Brenda

     Reply
137. David on June 17, 2015 at 11:47 am

     Again, why is OK for a wife to withhold but not the husband?

     Reply
     • Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 2:00 pm

       Where does it say that it is OK for a wife to withhold David? Such a situation would demonstrate a breakdown in mutual affection and communication. When a wife knows that her husband is not just using her and knows that he is willing to take her ‘No, because….’ seriously (on occasion), then there would be no problem.
       Get the deeper issues sorted first, release the blockages to effective affection + communication giving/receiving – and frequent, very frequent, extremely frequent intercourse will be the result! Men cannot just expect this as their right, or the norm, without respecting their wives enough to provide the ignition factor. We are like gardens, ready to receive the seeds – which gardener doesn’t till or nourish the soil keeping it free of weeds? Blessings 🙂

       Reply
       • David on June 17, 2015 at 2:11 pm

         The Bible says it is to go both ways. The woman on this blog say it is OK for a women to withhold, even you stated,”‘No, because….’ seriously (on occasion), then there would be no problem.. ” but if a man ever did that the wife would be upset. Again, double standard

         Reply
       • Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 2:13 pm

         It also works the other way around of course, if your wife left because of not getting enough sex, the communication breakdown is the deeper issue. It is possible to learn negotiation skills to reach agreement as to both your feelings as to how often, etc. I don’t believe that Christian women who are desiring to please God would leave a husband in order to find more elsewhere, she would know what this would mean for her soul.

         Reply
         • Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 2:15 pm

           I was typing part 2 of my reply at the same time you were typing that David!

           Reply
         • David on June 17, 2015 at 2:19 pm

           Sorry Mary2 but your post doesn’t answer the question as to why the women on this blog, including yourself, believes it is OK for a wife to say no once in awhile but not the husband!? Also just natural reaction, if the wife doesn’t want I has the husband will not bring it up again as it is scary

           Reply
           • Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 2:36 pm

             Of course it would be OK for the husband to say “No (darling) not tonight, because…..” once in a while. I don’t know where you got the impression that a husband isn’t ever allowed to decline – ?

             
             
             
           • David on June 17, 2015 at 2:54 pm

             Tks Mary. It is not just an impression as 99.9% of the women on here have made it very clear that OK for the wife to withhold but not the husband. Also I would be interested in your comments re the scary thing, if the wife does not want then I has the husband will not bring up again – this is real

             
             
             
           • Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 4:51 pm

             I’m not sure I’m understanding you sufficiently here David to be able to answer you properly – what, precisely is this ‘scary thing’? ….. “If the wife does not want then I as the husband will not bring up again” is too obscure – you will have to flesh this out a bit to make it more coherent, sorry.

             Just to let you know, only have the next 20 hours or so to be able to access this conversation before we go away for 10 days, so if you reply and do not hear from me, please don’t assume I don’t want to continue…… Blessings 🙂

             
             
             
138. Tom on June 17, 2015 at 1:26 pm

     Hi Brenda,

     Well I’m glad to hear my post was able to bring some comfort to you. That really made my day. I would encourage you not to give up on finding a Godly man. You say you only get so many chances & you have used up all of yours. Could you please give to me the passage in the bible where that verse is located because I have never came across it in all the times I have read the bible. What I do read is God is the God of second & third & 4th & 5th onto infinity chances. His love is unyielding. Jesus says In Mathews 7:11 If ye then being evil know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? You are not out of chances & just because your 58 doesn’t mean you cant find a Godly man to love you. I just had a friend of mine die & she didn’t meet her second husband until she was 61.. And he is a very Godly man & did love her very much. He called he his angel & the smartest person he ever met. And that’s saying a lot because he worked in a very technical with people who had very hi iq’s.My mom is almost 63 & is dated a very good man who treats her like a queen. So dont give up. You are a wonderful person Brenda Take care hugs

     Tom

     Reply
139. Brenda on June 17, 2015 at 1:45 pm

     Tom,
     Thank you for that reminder, which I needed to remember just how big our God is. That would be Brenda chapter 1 and not applicable at all. I appreciate your encouragement very much.
     Thanks again,
     Brenda

     Reply
140. Tom on June 17, 2015 at 2:06 pm

     Hi Brenda,

     Your very welcome. It’s a pleasure to help. We do have to be careful that we don’t project our own beliefs on God. Feel free to contact me anytime you need some encouragement.

     Tom

     Reply
     • David on June 17, 2015 at 2:14 pm

       Tom, many, many Christians believe that you cannot get married again for any reason so not an option for many

       Reply
141. Tom on June 17, 2015 at 2:27 pm

     Hi David,

     I do realize that many christians believe that you cant get remarried but that’s not scripture. We must based our doctrine on the word of God & not our own personal feelings & beliefs or those of other people.

     Tom

     Reply
     • David on June 17, 2015 at 2:35 pm

       unfortunately the Brethren (my parents and my up bringing) are very very very extremely strong about this. If I was to get married again it would mean giving up my parents.

       Reply
142. David on June 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm

     Karlene. “and excessive sex is not to the glory of God it robs our bodies of vital force.” wow, that sounds like something the brethren (evil, wicked cult) would say …. except they would not say the word ‘sex’ as in their minds it is a sin

     Reply
143. Brenda on June 17, 2015 at 3:01 pm

     David,
     Your stat of 99.9% is way off base. We are not talking of good, loving marriages on this blog. If we were, we wouldn’t be here. I don’t recall that anyone has said that in a good, loving relationship that it is not ok for the husband to have a headache, have other things he’s thinking about or just not one time on occasion. It is to be expected of both partners.
     Brenda

     Reply
144. Tom on June 17, 2015 at 3:20 pm

     Hi David,

     Christians can’t based our doctrine on what other people will think or do or say. The only thing we can based our doctrine on is the word of God. Somethings when we choose to follow God it means having to give up relationships with other people. For this cause shall a man leave his father & mother & shall cleave unto his wife & the two shall be one flesh. Ye are bought with a price be not ye the servants of men. If any man come unto me and hate not his father and mother and wife and children and brethren and sisters yea and his own life also he cannot be my disciple. The only thing we need to concern one self with is what would God think if we did…. Because when we die God wont judge us based on what our parents though of what we did but what he thinks of our actions. Stay close to God

     Tom

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145. David on June 17, 2015 at 5:37 pm

     Hi Mary2. Sorry that I wasn’t clear, if I ‘asked’ my wife to be intimate/sex and she said No, I would be feel comfortable (terrified actually) to ever ask her again.

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146. David on June 17, 2015 at 5:38 pm

     Uncomfortable

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     • Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 7:33 pm

       OK thanks David, understood now…. Firstly, in regard to your parents – we can still honour them BUT we must also think for ourselves. Being brought up in a cult atmosphere in God’s name – I know how difficult this can be – it feels very much to us like if we go against what we know are the wishes of our parent(s) then we are disobeying God, and this is SIMPLY NOT TRUE, hun!!
       Psalm 129 v.4 talks about being severed from the cords of the wicked – in this case, the umbilical cords that we are still bound by that prevent us from thinking for ourselves. Feeling too constrained to be able to think for ourselves is a wicked thing as far as the liberation of the Gospel is concerned – and if your parents cannot understand this, you are free to not honour them in this respect. It is what I had to have my eyes opened to myself. By allowing this to happen, through asking a trusted brother/Christian friend to pray with you – you will be strengthened in your journey towards the Truth with a Capital ‘T’!

       If your wife left you because of insufficient sex, then why would she say no? Maybe you are talking hypothetically – (imagining the scenario)…… from my limited perspective about your circumstances, I would offer the suggestion that your misunderstandings and communication difficulties need to be individually and jointly brought gently into the light of God’s healing grace and warmth IF there is the will on both sides to mend your relationship. If the will is there, the way will open up to you, I am convinced of that – there are so many resources available now to enable this to happen.
       I know this, because personally, I had given up that anything would ever be able to change for me, and attempted suicide as the only way out – God was merciful because he could see my motivation underneath all “the appearances” that I’d come to believe were the truth, but which were not actually the Truth (yes, with a Capital ‘T’ that makes the vital difference)! Nothing gets wasted in God’s economy – I do pray that, as you commit all of your situation into the care of your Creator and Redeemer, that you will see a way forward to resolve your situation(s). Blessings, 🙂

       Reply
       • David on June 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm

         Thanks again Mary2, your answer is quite the epistle, I need again!

         Reply
147. David on June 17, 2015 at 7:55 pm

     To read again

     Reply
148. Mary2 on June 17, 2015 at 8:19 pm

     Well, had to get in enough to last for the next 10 days….lol…. over and out 🙂

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149. Anewanon on June 17, 2015 at 8:37 pm

     David,

     My husband complained of the same thing. One of things that i have learned is that many of us are stuck in arrested development or with mother-son issues. I realize this sounds like alot of pyscho babble and it is. But even psycho babble can be addressed by God’s word too – it just a different way of explaining our hurts or sins. Mother-son issues is where you may have been too emotionally involved with your mom and thus now are unable to detached the associated feelings. Thus you may tend to view you wife as your mother (to be feared) instead of as a wife (to be loved). Again the advice of cutting those cords (above) is a good one. A wife, in order to feel safe and secure in her marriage, NEEDS to be allowed to say NO every one in a while to KNOW that she is loved regardless. And she needs to be pursued even when she says “No” just as Jesus pursues us when we turn HIM down. That is what grown up Christlikeness looks like and that is what WILL help heal a very wounded bride hurt in this area. Its time to put away childish things and put on Christ, Accept her, love her, pursue her, just as Christ does for you!

     Reply
150. Brenda on July 20, 2015 at 7:29 am

     Good morning Tom,

     I have taken your challenge and have been praying for a Godly man to be sent my way. How impatient I get!! It has been such a short time, barely a month since you offered your assistance and challenged me to pray and wait for God to act.

     Since then I have had to start journaling all of the unusual happenings that appear to be the xh in retaliation and holding to his promise that I will have a lifetime of him getting under my skin, which I felt was a threat and still do. Another man, who I would like to throw caution to the wind for and deep down inside know he is only temptation and hardly the Godly man that I am praying for. This keeps me looking to Christ and what a Godly man should look like.

     I am so tired of being alone. I long to be held in a way that I have only for a short time in my life known. I had a stint in the hospital a couple of weeks ago. It turned out to be nothing serious, but frightening. There was no one that I could physically feel holding my hand. God is always there and He should be sufficient for me. I still feel the need for human touch.

     Thank you for your invitation of encouragement and someone willing to listen. Praise God for you. Brenda

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151. Tom on July 20, 2015 at 2:16 pm

     Hi Brenda,

     Good to hear from you. I’ve been wondering how you been doing. I’m glad to hear your hospital stay was nothing serious.

     It’s good to hear that you can see this guy your interested in is not the Godly man that God has for you. As you wait for God to answer your prayers for a Godly man some verses comes to mind & they are Psalm 46:10 Be still and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? God knows that your tired of being alone & long to be held in a way that you’ve never really been held before. But your looking to feel that need in a man & there’s only one man capable of filling that need. And that one man is the man Jesus Christ & him alone. Look to him he will fill that dream. JUst like Mary & Martha over in John chapter 11 had the dream that there brother Lazarus who was sick would be healed by Jesus & he wouldn’t die. But then they though he had gotten there to late because by the time he arrived Lazarus had been dead 4four days. But they did something smart. They gave there dream to the Lord Jesus Christ & he resurrected the dream. I know you have a dream to be held like you’ve never really been before. And you may think that dream is dead. But I have news for you dear Brenda. Give that dream to the Lord Jesus & he will resurrect that dream just like he did for Mary & Martha & for me. You see I long to be used of God to be a blessing & an encouragement to others. And I was beginning to think that dream was dead. I have been searching & prayer for several years for God to use me to bless others. And I’ve been involved in many different things where I have been able to do this. But over the years one by one these things all ended & for the past few years I’ve been looking for things to do & everytime I think I’ve found something to do the door has been closed & I haven’t been able to go though with it. And I been very upset by this because the one thing I want more than anything in this world is be preach & teach the word of God & to lift people up out of the gloom of this world. And I was wondering if I’d ever be able to do so again. Then I read your first post & I could see that you were living with a lie. You’ve been beaten up so much in life by people who have lied to you. I could you you needed to hear the truth & what the bible really teaches about marriage & a women’s role in it. Despite what others have told you, You are not to blame for the problems in your old marriage. God has used you to show me that my dream isn’t dead it was only sleeping & when the time is right God will wake it up. And your dream Brenda isn’t dead either, it only sleepth. And When the time is right God will wake it up. If you like you may email me directly at rom8282001@yahoo.com. & if you like I’ll give you my cell number so you can reach me anytime you like. Keep smiling. Your friend in Christ,

     Tom

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152. Brenda on July 26, 2015 at 4:27 pm

     Hi Tom,
     Again, such an encouragement!! I have jotted down your email address. Thank you for that. Your dream is so much bigger and Godly than mine. I will keep your request and lift it up in my prayers to our Heavenly Father. I know that God sent you as an angel to me, I am sure he will give you others in due time.

     Jesus is the only one that can fill either of our needs and/or desires!! I know in my heart that He is sufficient, but then there is the worldly side that says that I “deserve” this. That is such a ridiculous thought. What I “deserve” is death. We have such an awesome God that wants to give His children good gifts. I have watched Him work before my eyes and know we will both see Him work again in His perfect timing.

     Yours in Christ, Brenda

     Reply
153. Tom on July 27, 2015 at 1:05 pm

     Hi Brenda,

     I’m glad to hear your doing better. I can tell by your post your in a much better state of mind than you previously have been. One word of caution though. Never compare your godly dreams and desires to others. Your dreams n desires are no more or less godly than someone else.God gives us all dreams & desires according to his own will. And no dream or desire is more important or bigger than someone else’s. Paul talks about this when he says were all one body & one part is more important than another. The eye cannot function without the foot & so on n so on. So your dreams & desires are just as important and godly as mine. Take care

     Tom

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154. april on September 29, 2015 at 9:17 am

     Our relationship began, sadly, with fornication and I allowed him to have anal sex, in the beginning. Now we are serving and I have come to an understanding that that type of intercourse is not God’s intent. I shared this with him over and over, but he will force me, at times. The last few years I wake up with him putting his fingers or even feels like a hand in there. It hurts and tears my skin. I’ve told him , pushed him off, worn pjs, forgive and trust again and the cycle starts over. Last night I confessed I had begun smoking again after 6 years of being clean, lots of stress in home. I opened myself up, laid at his mercy, and woke up at 4am to find he was fully penetrating me anally! I was hurt, horrified and angry. I bout another pack of cigarettes. Reading this helped me to have faith and trust in God again. I will quit and pray for peace in our bed. He is a good husband, other than this. I have been abused in previous marriages, he knows this, I guess hoping he was my safe place is what hurts the most. Thank you for this post. Blessings and prayers for all of you going through this and worse.

     Reply
     • Leslie Vernick on September 29, 2015 at 6:32 pm

       Please do not allow yourself to be treated this way any longer. You do not deserve this.

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155. Mary2 on September 29, 2015 at 1:11 pm

     Honey, you simply do not have to put up with this! A husband is to “love his wife as Christ loves the church – giving up his life for her” in other words, not doing things that are for his benefit only and which hurt her – pleasing himself at her expense and not taking her ‘No’ seriously. This is not what marriage is, and he needs to wake up to this, big time, starting straight away – the longer it continues the more difficulty you will have to keep resentment from your heart over the matter and you will not be able to respect your husband for not respecting your legitimate wishes, for your mutual good and just not yours. You are not loving your husband by permitting then resenting this abuse – unfortunately honey, you are enabling him to do things to you that no wife is required to do for God’s blessing – I pray that you will be empowered to put an end to it, – tell him “I have to respect myself, and doing this is not doing either of us any good, as we’re seeking to grow spiritually and that means in love, and love is taking the other person’s ‘No’ seriously, listening to her reasons” God be with you in this honey, Blessings, Mary2

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156. Sandra Anderson on September 29, 2015 at 4:27 pm

     Dear April, you absolutely do not have to tolerate this un-natural sexual treatment. My ex-h also wanted it, as well as oral, but I refused. Unfortunately, he found other women who would comply. I forgave him again and again. although feeling betrayed. He wasn’t a believer, although a good provider, and because I was taught by my church to stay and keep praying for his salvation, I did (for 57 years!). He was always controlling, verbally abusive and jealous, and it only increased after we retired. After reading Leslie’s book and realizing God didn’t expect me to live that way, I set the boundary of not sharing his bed until the abused stopped, but it didn’t. He finally left me, and I later filed for divorce. I praise God for the peace and freedom I now enjoy to serve Him as never before. My heart and prayers go out for you, dear, as you trust in God’s leading as well.

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157. Liz on September 29, 2015 at 4:29 pm

     April, if he can’t respect your boundary, move out of the bedroom. Mary2 is right, you don’t have to put up with that.

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158. brenda on September 29, 2015 at 5:13 pm

     April,
     What he is doing to you is not just unnatural, it can cause so many medical issues for you. God designed us the way he did for a reason. H is not allowing your No to be No. That is disrespectful to you and God. God is not happy with this kind of behavior. Forcing you to have sexual relations no matter how it is done, is marital rape. You do not have to tolerate this from your h. You should never wake up being violated.

     ((((HUGS))))
     Brenda

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     • Leslie Vernick on September 29, 2015 at 6:29 pm

       I agree.

       Reply
159. Mary2 on October 26, 2015 at 4:21 pm

     This is for Sonya – your story so resonates with me, (not that sodomy was ever asked tho) – but the staying in the marriage because of not wanting to ruin childrens’ lives and to honour the commitment I made to God, little realising exactly what it was I was dealing with – then, when I looked for support and some guidance from my church family, boy did they turn on me with the legalities and behaviouristic advice as to what they considered I was doing wrong, or the things I must not be doing right – always what I was “guilty” of, nothing at all to do with ‘he who must be obeyed’.
     However, I know God is on the side of those abused wives who do not feel listened to, heard, have their ‘No’ taken seriously and with respect, who get emotionally forsaken and sacrificed to keep up appearances and obey the agenda of Pharisees.
     Don’t believe any dogma or church leadership who will not believe you and who try to make out you have another agenda so they can look good themselves – God is always on the side of the oppressed and in these instances the oppressed does not mean the husbands who do not get every whim catered to at their wife’s expense 🙂

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     • Leslie Vernick on October 26, 2015 at 6:43 pm

       Exactly

       Reply
160. Mary2 on October 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm

     Thank you Leslie – it is strengthening to have support and affirmation 🙂

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161. Jill on November 13, 2015 at 4:26 pm

     Maybe I can get some clarification here. I was severely sexually abused from ages 4-18 by many different abusers. I was able to get out of the last abusive relationship at 18 1/2 and went directly to the man I would marry. I never told anyone of the abuse until 2 years ago. I knew it wasn’t right. I knew I shouldn’t marry, but I was traumatized. I felt I needed a man. We married when I was 20. He was gentle with me, but quite demanding. He didn’t ask if I wanted to do things. As the years passed, he became increasingly emotionally and verbally abusive. How was I supposed to want to have sex? But I was expected to. I found out 5 years into the marriage he’d been addicted to porn since his adolescence. He’s never stopped, nor does he believe it’s wrong. 7 years in he stopped going to church and said he’d never go back. He also said he’d never been a Christian: that his conversion had been an emotional time, nothing more. The less sex we have, the more porn he views. It’s on me. My pastor said I can’t expect him to stop because he’s an unbeliever. We’re currently separated.

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162. julie on December 3, 2015 at 9:02 am

     I used to be a youth minister in a very controlling fundamentalist church. I taught the bible. I baptized people. I had panic attacks periodically because God within was telling me what I was doing was wrong. I did not understand it and tried to get cured. The more bible I read, the smaller God became, the less faith I had in his power. I was constantly counseled on my questions or claims that cause argument. One leader told me to read my bible less. I could not understand why Paul would talk about God’s word and yet the bible had not been put together yet. I could not understand how God’s character changed from old testament to new. The gnostic view was there were 2 gods. But the truth is, there were many different texts the jews believed, but the actual books chosen around 400 ad were chosen by a controlling body of men who were trying to put together scriptures that fit what they believed Christianity should say. Remember, before this time the early persecuted Christians made big impact because of their LOVE not worship of a bible that did not exist. There are many creation stories but the one they conveniently picked put eve coming from Adams rib. I think it’s an act of God that the sea scrolls were discovered. But Christianity treats it like occult. Gospel of phillip, gospel of mary….. so many books were burned by the people who wrote the first version of the cannon. Truth is God has not changed. Mankind has been trying to define him. Trying to figure out how to be right with him. Truth is, you are right with him when you are true to you and project love on others. This is the message Jesus brought. It’s so simple and been so hijacked. Paul understood it I think but he was not Jesus and he says this in the bible, yet there is more Paul words than Jesus words. I studied out divorce, Jesus said men should not leave their wife because IN THOSE DAYS, she could not work or own property. She was basically dead. Today things are so different. My husband has been secular abusing me for 14 years and I’ve held on because of my promise to love him through better or worse. But reality is marriage is a human contract. I must be married to God first and God is love. I need to love myself because I’m very torn up. He is seeing what has happened. There are so many other icky factors. I’m afraid staying with him at this point is an act of self hatred. All I know is its time for me to take back my power.

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163. Brenda on January 13, 2016 at 1:56 pm

     Candice,
     The mere suggestion of such things is past the point of being forced. That subject should never, never be brought up. There is no reason or explanation good enough for it. The fact that he has those thoughts and subjects you too them is intolerable.

     Brenda

     Reply
164. Marie on February 6, 2016 at 1:13 am

     I was married at 20 by a priest who I had told 3 months prior to the marriage….we have lots of disagreements and I have doubts. On my wedding night….I wasn’t ready to give myself….my husband began to yell at me, became angry and I froze…then he just took over and did it….no love, no compassion, no consolation, no security….all I could think was “who did I marry”….I just wanted to go home. My family was dysfunctional and I believed in the sanctity of marriage. I stayed and told no one. The next 23 years were controlled by his decisions on all major decisions. Love never existed, I was a possession of his. He grew up in a family where men were revered and women should serve. None of my family knew he was an angry man. At home he would yell and scream over any small incident. All money matters were extreme….for him money was never enough and no matter how much I made, saved or worked for….he yelled at me and made me believe we were on the brink of poverty. I would beg to have time away together….he would tell me I was selfish and always looking to spend money.Outside of the home he always seems meek, mild and so kind to everyone, always laughing and always finding the peace. Finally, I had my last sexual incident where I had spent the day in Emergency with an extreme case of hives all over my body. He accompanied me to the hospital….in the waiting room there was a billboard it said if you suspect you are in an abusive relationship, tell the nurse….I overlooked the sign that day….however it made realization over time. That night after being released and still covered in hives from head to toe he wanted sex…I told him “cant you see I am in pain, cant you see my body is in pain” …..he did not care and proceeded. I was an object to him, nothing else. 2 weeks later I told him I think we are done, but we have 3 children and so much together….I was still contemplating. My faith, my believe in Gods union was strong. He went behind my back and told my family….she’s talking crazy. They knew nothing…I held the abuse in all my life long. My 1st boyfriend raped me…because I broke it off with him…he said he was taking what no one else could have, my virginity. I was ashamed. I told no one. During my marriage my husband would yell at me and abuse me mentally one day I threw myself out of our vehicle. My children were in the vehicle. I told no one. Abused people do not recognize abuse. I finally got out of the marriage. He fought me all the way…telling me he would tell my kids it was me not him. He alienated my kids from me. 2 of them didn’t speak/see me for 2 years. My 3 siblings still do not talk to me its been 5 years. They invite him to all occassions and alienate me. My priest told me I should get back into the marital bed with him and didn’t believe me when I told him about the honeymoon. He crossed his arms and alienated me. After 3 years my marriage was annulled. My kids started to see me again after forcing him to therapy where he finally told them “I was not fair to your mother”. My family still alienates me and he still celebrates with them. As much as I would like to tell them, I was the victim, he raped me, abused me and still tries too….I ve given up on them because my kids don’t need to be further embarrassed by who their father is. My family is so ignorant, they would probably belittle me and not believe it and rub it into my childrens face. I faced his father and finally told him the truth in front of my ex. It took me 2 years after the marriage ended to understand I was abused. My ex father in law did not believe me…he just walked away…few days later he said to my 17 year old daughter…your mother tried to say your father raped her. He told my daughter his granddaughter….your mother has tried to hurt me. Abusers protect abusers. I got out. I saved my life, my sanity, my body and my self respect. God has never abandoned me. Jesus has taken care of me thru and thru. Although I still hurt at times….over 5 years later…thru incidents where I am hurt with comments or actions of others which sometimes triggers deep pain….I live a happy, peaceful, joyful life. I’ve learned the sanctity of Love which has intended for 2 to be one of mind, body and soul. Love does not hurt, take or abuse. Love is Kind, Love is gentle, Love is not selfish, it is not boastful or conceited. Faith, hope and Love are 3 gifts but the greatest of these is Love.

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165. Aurora on May 15, 2016 at 9:25 pm

     I am going to throw in some new thoughts here. First of all, I was a member of a ministry (Christian) and I taught the Bible and I even baptized people. I was married 15 years and am currently getting a divorce from my husband because of many reasons but one is because he abused me, mentally, emotionally and sexually. He treated me like it was my duty to have sex with him. It is my duty to do all the house work and raise the kids and also make a living. My duty is to be super woman and TAKE all the ugly things he says and sarcastic cut downs he says. And when I say Hey, I think we need to see a therapist, he says, no – but if you have more sex with me, I will be kinder to you. And then starts telling me lies to make me feel bad about myself – statistics say that GOOD wives have sex with their husbands 5-7 times a week and sometimes 3x a day! He spent a lot of time making up lies. And because of my Christian upbringing, I focused on being A Good Wife. I did it all – I worked 3 jobs, gave him sex all the time even though I did not want it, did all the cleaning, child care – I know the kids ages and school grades and teachers (he doesn’t) – I take them to the doctors etc. He doesn’t. I do everything – I do all the kids stuff – all the house stuff and worked several jobs and performed for him sexually. And all I asked for was to get out on a date once and a while. When I walked by him at home, he would reach out and twist my breast hard and it hurt SO badly. And he would make fun of me for laughing. He would always ask me to kiss him and when I did – he would make it into this ugly pretend all tongue joke. When he left in the morning for work – he would kiss the kids and purposely NOT kiss me or make me kiss him and not kiss me. I was HURTING SO BADLY and I tried and tried to talk to him about it. Finally, I said ENOUGH. And I started researching my Bible training. I started asking questions. And what I realized is this. Jesus is and was an enlightened man. He is ascended as son of God. We are all sons and daughters of God and we all have God inside of us. The OLD testament is ONE version of the LAW that ONE Jewish group followed. There were many Jewish sects. Some of them believed in different things. This version is the only one that has the creation story of Eve coming from Adam. Some jewish sects believed Adam had a first wife who was too difficult and independent and so he divorced her and married Eve (she went on to start the people Cain left to join). There are MANY different books and beliefs. Then there are also MANY gospels. There is a gospel by Peter, Philip, Mary, Judas, etc – many many many. PAUL wrote DO NOT FOLLOW HIM – do not worship him – he is only a man – and he wrote letters to the churches to help them but he was NOT JESUS. Yet, people teach the Bible as if it is GOD SPEAKING. IT IS NOT. Constantine had a vision nearly 400 years after Jesus died that Jesus appeared to him and asked him to start the religion officially. At this point there were lots of different sects of Christians and NO BIBLE and they were making an impact by THEIR LOVE FOR PEOPLE. So Constantine was sweating it and so it was very convenient that he had this vision. And after they went through all the books and writings – they selected the Jewish version that put women coming from a man’s rib. Who gives birth to who? Why do we believe this? JESUS CAME TO TELL US THAT HE IS DELIVERING US FROM THE LAW. So why is the old testament even included in the Bible SINCE ITS THE LAW WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW? Yet we use it to condemn and judge people – WHILE IT ALSO SAYS FROM JESUS MOUTH not to judge people? HUH? So if you do your research, if you are a true CHRIST follower – then maybe you should JUST read Matthew Mark Luke John. So then I did that and I bought the Nag Hammadi scriptures, which DIVINELY appeared in 1948 in fully intact condition. Some missing gnostic gospels. And read parts of Peter’s gospel and Peters revelations. Why were these not included? Wasn’t Peter his best friend? Why not include Peters gospel BUT include a bunch of writings by Paul WHO SAID not to worship him and yet in church we worship his words as if they are God speaking alongside Jesus’? So then I went to the gospels and realized – Matthew was a JEW. Jesus was talking to the JEWS about their law – and he was reminding them WHY the Law was written. READ THE CONTEXT IN WHICH IT WAS WRITTEN! He was telling the Jewish people “You have forgotten why the Laws were written” – and then he went over each law. That is what is happening in these gospels. When Jesus talks to them about divorce – he was reminding them WHY they should not divorce. In those days a woman could not own land nor have a job. So if she was divorced with children, SHE AND THE KIDS WERE BASICALLY DEAD. But now we can work and own stuff – praise the Lord. Constantine and the first unified church put a bible together of JUST the right scriptures in the just the right way and sold it to us all as God Speaking. And its been revised, translated, changed and added to (the last chapter of Matthew was not in the original and everyone’s beloved Kind James who was not a great man, had the words King and Lord added a lot to strengthen the stronghold of him and the Lords – he wasn’t even a religious man). There was an English version created only 60 years prior but its problem was – the King wanted the words King and Lord added more. The Bible is not to be worshipped. FOLLOW JESUS. Not the Bible. Jesus said to LOVE the oppressed, love the unlovable, feed the hungry, DO NOT JUDGE, have the heart of a child. He was the Messiah for the JEWS not for everybody. For the rest of us – he was an enlightened man and son of God to show us we have God inside of us. We can follow him – we can walk on water if we believe. POINT IS – GOD IS LOVE. AND IF YOUR MARRIAGE IS NOT LOVING IT IS NOT OF GOD SO GET OUT OF IT if you cannot bring love into it. God says righteousness is when you are right by yourself. Do what is right for yourself. In the name of LOVE. This that I say is incredible controversial. But please if one person who reads this says Hey, why do I think the Bible is God speaking…. you were TRAINED and conditioned to think this by tradition. But “Christianity” doesn’t follow Jesus. It follows this bible and the bible is a CONTINUATION OF THE LAW. But God is so much bigger and more powerful than a bunch of rules. God is LOVE. So again, if your marriage is not based on love then it is not Godly and so its Just A Piece of Paper.

     Reply
166. Sandra Anderson on May 17, 2016 at 10:05 am

     I believe the Old Testament and New go together, although the New Testament is the “New” Covenant for those born again through the Holy Spirit. Jesus came to die and shed His blood our sins (John 3:16), and give us eternal life. He loves us unconditionally and does not expect us to suffer abuse from anyone.

     Reply
167. Deborah on May 27, 2016 at 1:22 pm

     Most advice about dealing with sexual abuse in marriage comes down to leaving the marriage. What if you can’t? My husband hasn’t worked in over 20 years (he obviously has other problems), so I am the sole bread winner. In our state, we would split my small retirement and current part-time earnings, giving neither one of us enough to live on. Additionally, he is a marksman, and dependent on me emotionally, so I have no problem seeing a situation where I wanted out and he responded with murder/suicide. I only have 2 close friends I could resort to in a desperate situation; both of which he knows of, so I could not go to and thereby endanger them. I guess my question here is that I need advice about how to live WITH this situation since I cannot leave it. The abuse entails: his wanting a lot of sex (5-6 times a week, hours at a time), anal sex, sexual hypnosis, deep throating.

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     • Lala on May 28, 2016 at 12:00 am

       Deborah – LEAVE. At some point you have to trust the universe and God will take care of you. God is love and youre not NOT NOT in a loving relationship at all. Miracles happen when we stand up for Love. TRUST me they do. This is where if you believe in God, you must acknowledge that things will happen for you when you take a stand. I am in the same kind of marriage and I am getting out. Magic is happening for me – just doors are opening up and things are unfolding for me because I trusted that God wants me to be loved and love myself. Its all about putting love first and if you are not in a loving relationship and there is no way to make it loving – GET OUT.

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     • Leslie Vernick on May 28, 2016 at 9:34 am

       Deborah, there are abuse shelters where you could go. It might involve leaving your location for a season, but would that not be preferable than to be scared of being killed and sexually degraded most days of your life? You have some very tough choices to make but I’m not sure the best one is to simply endure the prison camp marriage you are in if you have a chance to escape. IT might take planning, and consulting with professionals – the DV hotline for a safety plan is 800-799-SAFE. You can also contact your local DV shelter and explain the circumstances to them. You can let your workplace know so they would be on alert if he shows up at the workplace. You could get a protection from abuse, or file charges of sexual abuse and he would be in jail – where he couldn’t hurt you. Consult a lawyer, talk to DV experts, do something rather than be a resigned, helpless victim.

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168. Sandra Anderson on May 27, 2016 at 4:42 pm

     Deborah: I don’t understand why you can’t leave? I certainly would recommend it, no matter what!

     Praying for you.

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169. Kitty on October 28, 2016 at 6:55 pm

     I have been with my husband 15yrs, basically my entire adult life. I feel like there’s nothing outside of him. I have been catering to his every whim for close to half my life. I know that sexual abuse is very prevalent in my marriage by a lot of things that have happened: 3somes, pushed me into stripping, punished me for stripping…. My husband is pressuring me to start preforming sex shows with him on webcam for money and from there he’s hinted at prostitution. It has been so long that I’m numb to everything now. I don’t say no, try to resist… He’s told me for years that there are worse people out there… That he’s protecting from all the real predators. That a girl (I’m 34) like me needs a man to tell her what’s going on because I am so naïve… I have basically given up. I keep telling myself “the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t”.

     -Feeling Lost

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     • Leslie Vernick on October 29, 2016 at 11:13 am

       Kitty, please get out. Your husband is using and abusing you and God does not want that for you. If you have children how do you know he wont’ also sexually abuse them? Please contact your local domestic violence shelter for help or get yourself into some counseling to get stronger and ready to leave. Please. You are not created to be someone else’s object.

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170. isis56 on October 22, 2019 at 6:19 pm

     Leslie. I know I commented here before. I have beeno told by church leaders, Legal people. union officials, even the company my husband is now retired from Is that I had participated in a scheme to keep my husband as a slave.

     What was the truth was when he came home from the Navy in 1985 was with his father asking it of me I was just trying to get my husband to keep things nice in the community and use options he had to help better peoples lives. Within the first week he was home we knew he had no interest in helping any one out in the community. within two years I realized that he was not going to think that he was giving up what he wanted and for doing that somehow he would get something back at a time of good will.

     For 31 years I just tried to us sex and the promise he would eventually have it from someone, Maybe not even me. but if he just kept life nice for others in the community it would bring on a situation of goodwill. where everyone could just do and let any thing happen in peace. In 2013 the last thing that he was going to allow when he came home from three years of physical rehab after MRSA caused his spine to slip and cripple him.

     I had just finished getting ready to go to a black tie dinner that I had been invited to by my husbands father to accompany another man that was being given a award for long community service since his ex wife would not go. That was the only reason I was going was to be the fourth at the table. just allow me to have a nice night in society before my husband came home. His mother sister and I had already decided that we knew my husband was coming home that week and we needed to get him to sit down with us, and many in the community so we could have talks about how to over come the last 31 years that had been stolen in his idea. Find peaceful solutions to decide how and when he would be allowed to be a part of the social structure over time. When I stepped out of my bedroom trying to fasten a clasp around my neck. right into his chest. I knew nearly instantly he was not going to even try a way to get along with any one that evening.

     My husbands statement before I could say any thing was good I was ready to go out. Where were we going? He had already decided that nobody but him had any thing to say about what he was going to do with me that evening. HE said That it had been 31 years since he had even been to a movie. I was left backing away trying to explain the promise I had made his father about going.

     It seemed the more I tried to plead the worse things became. When I told him I had promised his father he told me he would have to get as used to broken promises as he had, that I was as of that second going to start keeping. I was going to keep every promise I had broke to him about a sex life, holidays and vacations, about his home life and being included and he cared less who or what wanted my attention. he came first. Nobody e4lse especialily his father, my friends, or a social order came before him. I was begging him to take a 100, Pick a place to meet in four hours and not embarrass me or his family over something so stupid as not having his way for 31 years. We could talk about what we could do to make up for things when the dinner was done, there did not have to be another scene over his rights around home. Couldn’t he just see a way to be nice about things without hurting someone.

     I said that evening was very important to his father and his friend that everything go well. It was like my husband felt the last 31 years he had to have his work and pain aknowleged they needed their service to the decades of community service recognized. We could discuss after the dinner his rights and resposiblity and what was expected. To get him things he had wanted for himself for decades when so many had other needs. I just needed time that night to get him to have some compassion for any one else. After his return from the navy and his unconcern for any one else was the reason I had started sex denial and everyone decided to hold his feet to the fire until we had some kind of notice that there were others with needs.

     I was just pleading for any discussion after that dinner and a way to slow things down a bit Try and stop things from getting as out of hand as they had been the last 12 years, with us doing something to stop my husband from doing as he pleased then he would come back to hurt someone for interfering in his rights and Demand the things he had rights to under his UAW contract no matter the need someone else had. That was all I wanted in 1985 a way to work things out without any harm to any one else. Find solutions not my husbands hate and thinking we were keeping him from what he wanted out of spite.

     IN 1998 I was standing in front of him in my kitchen on Christmas evening, Handing him the sandwiches we were going to take him at his work gate, I was telling him I could put a couple of plates together for him to heat up when he came home if we were still at the club. I was telling him we had tried for the last 14 years to point out the weeks he could try after the first of the year and a way to have time off for the holidays, Even the union and company were tired of trying to explain his being the one to have to work the holidays The large pay grievances the company was being forced to pay him in bonus for not seeing he had the times he requested off with his seniority. Even his father and the court was tired of his constant arguments against them and the hitting everyone with his civil rights over needs the community had. HE started hurting people that day deciding he had as much in rights as any none else and he was willing to kick rears to get them when we were searching for solutions that would work for all without harm.

     Leslie. That’s all we wanted was a solution to all needs being found and trouble and defiance to needs to stop. Stop in a fair and equitable way. Not have my husband kicking us in the teeth with what he wanted when there were ways to get his time at other times when there was less in needs. Not constantly feel we were standing in his way when he wanted something. There were times he could have out of everyones way. The next 14 years that was all we tried to dal with including the holidays he was not bought home while he was in rehab. We tried to make his time there nice after the holidays bringing him his gifts. Sandwiches from Subway he liked. and he was throwing them at me and stainless steel bed pans at his father because we would not allow him home in a wheel chair van. 2014 I was standing there crying since he had not been home for decades for the holidays Why sh0ould he make such a big stink over it now When he finally came home over a few years we would work him into them with a consensus on how to do it without resentment.. Again he demonstrated he was not going to be even a little cooperative. February 5th he came home after we had tried to get the Regional mental health to keep him just on more day because of the dinner that was planed.

     His father had thought he had arranged to keep him until we could pick him up the next day after explaining all bringing him home that day would cause was a big argument and fight. Especially since he was not invited to go with me to the dinner I was to accompany his fathers best friend just as a friend.

     My husbands return home from the center by insurance taxi was very unexpected I was getting ready for the dinner we had left him in the center in hope to avoid any trouble over. I came out of my bedroom not realizing he had just come home as I had my head down trying to fasten the clasp of a Saphire and Diamond necklass. It was a nice gift he had bought me in the nineties. Before the nastiness over not getting to go to Bavaria, over the millinialls. after receiving it In 1995 I had promised him I Would work on getting him out from under the court order his father had him under to go to the court and get him approved to go to Great Britton in 1996 with me. I was not able to keep that promise again begging him at the start of 1996 to just find a place that was not cold to go in January 1997. please stop fighting with everyone over his seniority rights there were other considerations we had to make. The defiance by December 23rd 1999 had come to steely resolve on my husbands part not giving an inch to the decisions of higher authority in our thought. We had decided to come back with some plan for the same amount of time off.

     It might not have been the Celebrations and beer halls in Munich that we attended but he would have had the ability to rest after not having a day off since thanksgiving 1980 when we went to Charelston SC to find a apartment and take things to put I a storage there so we could travel on a January honey moon, before he was to get his PCS orders there..

     Our wedding worked out nice, It was our wedding night that did not work out with him getting intercepted by a shore patrol senior chief at our hotel desk with orders to get on a COD from Norfolk To Jacksonville with four other classmates to take the place of five ratings that had been busted un a drug test> He was at sea the next morning on his first patrol. He was gone until the 28th of May 1985 three and a half years latter.

     When his return home was him as hard as the steel he had served in the last three and a half years. The cooperation we had hoped for was not forthcoming He was tired, Was not willing to help us find solutions that could be worked out for everyones needs. I just wanted a family and a way to raise it in peace with those around us. And he hated me for wanting it. when to try and keep his return in peace with the community ni used the only chip I had to bargin with was sex as the reward to get his cooperation without argument. That was what I had told him his third day home. That for 6two years I would hold sex from him to make sure he did not disrupt lives. The argument day was about him puting his shift preference in and ruining a 19 year old girls social life by puting her on second shift since under the contract she only had six months to his nine years seniority, I 0did not see how it was skin off my husbands nose to stay on second shift. We could figure out other ways he could do what he wanted. I was wrong We could not and 15 years latter nothing made him happy or was willing to try in exchange for those with other needs.

     HE felt my withholding a sex life as a bargaining chip was a ransom we wanted on his freedom. as more with less seniority came into the complex but had different social and family requirments, For my husband it was either he got his way in all his seniority rights I continued to try and get him to try any thing our way. Take his vacation and holidays with through using his personal time after the End of the plant personal time and we could arrange to have Holiday celebrations and do his holidays in a different way. By 1998 He was throwing shift foreman out the door of the plant because the Local circuit court was requiring him to work even though we were still offering a direct exchange of holiday time after the first of the year, In 1998 he showed up threatening me if I cleaned the dinner off in preperation to go to the club for after dinner drinks and deliver his sandwiches and a ten to buy a book with for his Christmas when he got off work His attitude towards his father and another guest the Judge that decided he was to work I was trying to raise the anty by offering to leave two plates in the fridge for him when he was to come home at b1230 AM and we would come home to talk to him about how to break the deadlock about what we could do about getting him time off then.

     He was threatening me with breaking my arms if I touched the first dish on as he said it his table to put it up before he had his fill His father and the judge were both sitting where he had tossed them on their rears in the front yard after being told they were not welcome in his home until he was himself. Then he went after other guests kids because they were using pot in his house. We could have worked something out when he came home if he would have just stayed at work that Christmas. Then again The Next Christmas Just Tried a compromise about the trip to Bavaria. I had showed him the February before that We could go To Trinidad very easy after the rest of us came back from the milliniall celebrations in Munich since there were so many with plans and wanted the time off over the holiday. I was crying in February it would just be so nice if he would just try and be understanding about the needs of others and take the time we were pointing out he could use that was easy on everyones hopes. I still wonder what harm would it have caused just to take the compromises offered We could have started a real sex life and fam8ily in peace within the community. Made it easy on all. HE would have maybe had a nice time in Trinidad if he would have just tried. It was our leaving that things got very dicey in leaving two deputies laying knocked out for trying to take him into custody as the county judge ordered them to do to keep him from leaving for Bavaria and work the holidays. He was offered by a union official along with others that had to work from 11 Pm To 2 AM on the 31st and 1st to at least have the three hours around the century change to have a nice meal laid on by the company and union, Watch the Fireworks at Midnight the city was setting off behind the Union hall even have one drink to toast the new century was going to be provided. I was getting drunk myself at midnight In Munich feeling sorry for myself at the way my husband cussed us out on the 23rd and wished for our death before the new year.

     I just remember the man that had been my escort the whole time there was kissing me in welcoming the New century and how good it felt to have someone near who would pay attention to me without being angry he was not getting his way.

     I then remember waking up with him next to me feeling good the next morning. His father was in his room having the first decent nights sleep since we landed since my husbands mother was furious we had had my husband jailed and made to work.

     We called his local Union President on the Third of January to ask what we could do to arrange time off to replace the holiday my husband had just worked through producing a parts bank for assembly startup. He recommended we find a deep hole and pull it in behind us and not even think about coming back. My husband had involved the ACLU, had involved the state Judicial review board in a investigation on the judge. Had involved both the national and international UAW in reviewing the local unions reason for not stepping in on my husband side with the highest department seniority and forcing the youngest seniority to work the holidays instead and letting my husband decide for himself when and how he was taking his holiday, personal time. and vacation as he saw fit. That went for all seniority by hire date no matter what obligations and plans made. The next Nine years I tried starting with our Return on His 45th birthday trying to tell him if he would just do as we were trying to do we could start a sex life and family of our own and after that his father and others would get off his back about social responsibility. Then IN the airport on May 28th 2009 I was pleading Just wait for the Vacation Of five weeks I had planned starting on our 28th wedding anniversary. I was standing in that conference room pleading wasn’t it time he stopped being furious with me and his father and those I considered friend and we could work on what we could salvage now instead of hating me. I was Had tried to gain his understanding for 27 years by then. That was the last time we would even try and get it since he would have 35 years seniority by that time and we could no longer even hope for willing cooperation if he choose not to try.

     I was crying that we did cancel his orient express berth but his father had been fair and made up the 10 percent out of his own pocket and I was giving him the entire amount if he wanted in cash at his work gate on Christmas day along with the vacation I had already reserved for the entire five weeks he had coming, We could have our holidays at our destination then,( I had mad the reservations for a vacation Rental on ST Croix which Included a Boat and Willys jeep. I was thinking it could at least be a start in a better life than the hell that was being raised on all sides. The greivences, The yelling his father did at his mother The major fights that left people bleeding and broken for interfering with my husbands seniority.

     His father had insured my husband was not going by taking his passport out of his camera case and was just going to hand it to TSA to mail back to him if he did not raise a bru ha ha about not going. Just go back to work for that younger seniority going with his 4 month pregnant bride. Instead of Just try and listen and understand the reason we canceled him. He decided to try and murder his father and me . All because he would just never try any thing our way about his vacation in January.

     My husband just never found any thing to be happy with at work, When we returned he made sure the younger man was hung out to dry, Being terminated the day we arrived back As for myself and his father we were Cuffed and read our rights charged with what was considered theft, Acting as false agency in stopping my husbands vacation on the orient express through misrepresentation. We plead guilty on legal advice at the arraignment. We asked for immeadiat sentencing after asking my husband why he was pushing things to this point over something so stupid as time off he could easily replace that winter. We were in Jail Until Labor day and I had to give up the Refund and in punitive damage his father had to double it. We had weekly visits from his mother and sister my husband would not come and even try and talk with at least me on how we could get past the inpass that we had come to. I wanted a marriage that did not have a husband come home and ignore me because I was not offering a sex life. I wanted to Go to St Croix and see if there was any way to salvage our marriage. When we went to try and find him at the Union Picnic on labor day his father and I were asked to go to the local unions presidents office to talk about what was going to happen with my husband from then on. We were told that the company was changing the way people would be allowed to work holidays and vacation times Their gate cards would not clock them in or even let them through the turn stills if they refused the canvas. The Union and company would stand by seniority.

     Things had gone from nearly no control about my husbands holidays to absolutely none, we were going to have to include him in our home and traditions over the holidays no matter who wanted him at work.

     I did not know which small motel he was keeping himself or even if he was We could only find him going into a nearby state forest and then he would vanish. We knew his camping gear he had gathered over the decades was gone.

     We followed him On labor day evening to that state forest and even called conservation officers to tell us where he was They said they did not even know Just knew that he would cook out there but even that was so diffused they could not find it.

     We were let in to see him the Morning after labor day in his work break area to just try and try and find a way to come to a common meeting place for the well being of all that we considered friends. He was getting everything he wanted now. The holidays off, His vacation which if he wanted he could do as he please ruining whoever he wanted in the deal to get his way. I was just now to tired to try and stop him any longer. He could do as he wanted and hurt whoever he wanted to get his way. I would no longer interfere nor would I try and salvage our marriage.

     HE just got up nearly doubled over and Left with his finger in the air. I hurt still from being thrown across that conference room and sat there in front of his union Chaolain Crying. who looked at me and asked why I was crying I had bought everything down on my own head. He told us they had offered the next week off to my husband for sick leave to find out why his stomach hurt so bad. To go for a few days of Tests and Scans as well as a rest after 28 years of no rest. or days off. That chaplain point blank asked me what right did we have to withhold the life my husband deserved in having his own family. In deciding his own holidays off and Vacations. What right did we have to decide he would only have days off in January and February. No o6ther time was going to be permited. Then He said we disgusted him and he said security would show us the door. His mother and I were starting the Plans for Thanksgiving at my house to include my husband on October 24th 2009. She was asking the Chaplain to give him a note to come home before it was to cold.

     WE were there when the phone rang and it was his foreman Informing us my husband was in a ambulance on his way to the Community ER. HE said That he did not know what was wrong all they could get was him screaming in pain everytime they moved him. We could not get his father to take us to the ER because he felt it was something that could wait . He had a tailgate and Football game to go to at Lucas Oil stadium By the time his sister got there to take us we were directed to The East side Main Campus where we were told he was going into surgery His father was super furious that the man he was supposed to go to the tailgate and game with was called in to take my husband place that afternoon. We hoped that the surgery was not so bad that it was Months off the Job, It was worse. He was not going back with his Legs not having nerve impulse. and a spine fusion. That e was Being given Morphine, Vancomiasin. Benadryle. D5w through a port he still had this year when he died. In June 10 years latter.

     I just wish I could have found a way so everyone was in agreement as far back as 1985. Instead I now have a nearly six year old son. a dead husband, Just A place top live and money for the two of us my husband left us with the properties.

     HE died Up at high range where his ashes were interred in June. I still don; know why things were the way they were except he wanted things to be his way over a provisions in a uaw Contract which are being negotiated now and we are hearing thins did not go well.

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171. Sally on May 30, 2022 at 6:14 pm

     I so appreciate these words. I too went to my pastor and shared what my husband had said and done sexually to me and he chuckled. Our pastors need education on the sexual, mental and emotional abuse that women can be going through within a marriage. It is very dad that we can’t find safety with our spiritual leaders because of their lack of knowledge. I believe there is more abuse going on in the church then they realize. Many suffer in silence believing its their Godly duty to submit.

     Reply