I’m Scared To Stay Well Or Leave Well
Morning friend,
Please pray for a friend of mine who is a young widow with several children and has been recently diagnosed with COVID. Some of her children also have Covid. But her biggest concern is for one of her children who has severe asthma. She’s terrified for him and for herself as a single mom. She needs lots of prayers for peace of mind, for protection for herself and her children. And because she has COVID and a few of her kids have COVID, people who might ordinarily offer support – to take the child with asthma for a week to protect him isn’t going to happen. She is alone and she needs God to heal her and protect her children. Thanks.
Today’s Question: In the 24 hours since discovering this site, I’ve read the Destructive Marriage e-book, watched every chapter on YouTube, scoured the blog posts, and read the Nine Tactics of Manipulators PDF… I’m desperate to understand how to restore my situation through any means necessary, but I just don’t know how to stay well OR leave well.
Staying well means take care of yourself, don’t harbor bitterness, don’t engage in behavior that matches or retaliates the abuser… But we’re also to show the law of consequences… How? How do you show consequences to a man that disdains your existence? Who is just as happy to lecture you for five hours as to ignore you entirely for weeks? I’ve demonstrated sacrificial love and perpetuated this cycle deeper every time, so what does the balance of good behavior and consequences look like?
Leaving well means establishing a community of support (which will certainly violate his expectations of privacy and respect) so you can do so safely and sanely. But how do you kick out a man who refuses to leave, except on his terms? And how can you walk away from a home to leave him to destroy everything of value to you?
Answer: Your feelings are valid and many women (and men) in your situation feel the same. They feel desperate for answers that will restore or fix their marriage – at any cost or any price.
But that approach will never lead to peace, true reconciliation or healing of your marriage. You don’t really tell us much about what’s going on in your marriage but you are quite clear that you feel ignored, distained, lectured, and trapped. You don’t know how to stay well or leave well. Either choice will result in some pain and staying and doing nothing is also painful.
You said, “I’ve demonstrated sacrificial love and perpetuated this cycle deeper every time, so what does the balance of good behavior (CORE STRENGTH) and consequences look like?”
Let me take you to that passage in 2 Peter to give you a couple of examples of the balance of good behavior and consequences.
First, Peter tells us how to handle ourselves in the presence of abusive people. He is clear that believers should be respectful of others regardless of how we are treated. That’s good behavior.
Often in destructive marriages a spouse who is verbally battered or emotionally neglected or abused can start to lob some verbal bombs of her own. Instead of responding to mistreatment in a way that honors God, she dishonors herself, her husband, and God by her building resentment as well as her explosive or sinful reactions to his abuse.
God tells us that as godly wives, we must choose a different path. Peter encourages us not to pay back evil for evil by reminding us of Jesus, who, “when he was reviled, did not revile in return; When he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly” (1 Peter 2:22,23).
However, good is not merely being passive in the face of evil. The apostle Paul reminds us that we overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21) and overcome is not a passive word.
Secondly, Peter explains when a believer should endure abusive treatment. He writes, “For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.” (1 Peter 2:20)
The good that Peter is talking about here is a moral good, a doing the right thing kind of good and that often means implementing consequences and/or setting boundaries by refusing to go along with immoral or abusive behavior. Although in this passage Peter specifically advises Christians to submit to authority, Peter himself was flogged after he refused to stop preaching about Christ even though he’d been ordered by those in authority to stop. Peter refused to submit because in doing so, he would have to stop doing good (Acts 4:19; Acts 5:17-42).
In the same way when a wife refuses to submit to her husband’s sinful behavior, refuses to pretend or lie, stands up for her children who are being mistreated, refuses to sign a dishonest income tax report, or calls 911 when her husband is threatening to harm her or himself, she is doing good even if it doesn’t feel good to her spouse.
Her behavior is good. It honors God, protects her children and does what is in the best interest of her spouse (it is never in someone’s best interests to enable sin to flourish).
When a wife takes these brave steps and sets boundaries and implements consequences for her spouse’s sinful and abusive behavior she will most likely face suffering. She may suffer financially as her husband sits in jail because she called the police when he hit her. She may suffer the censure from her church when she separates from him because of his unrepentant use of pornography and verbal abuse. She may suffer with loneliness, retaliation from her spouse, disapproval from her friends and family for the stance she’s taken. That’s exactly the kind of suffering Peter is talking about. He’s speaking about suffering for doing good instead of being passive or fearful or doing the wrong thing or nothing at all. Peter is saying that when we do what is right (stand up, implement consequences, refuse to go along with wrong doing) and we get mistreated for it, God sees it and commends us.
As I’ve said repeatedly, we all have choices to make and those choices have consequences. When a husband (or wife) repeatedly chooses to treat his spouse with contempt, abuse, indifference, harshness, cruelty, and deceit, he or she cannot demand the benefits of a good marriage. To do otherwise is to lie and pretend, which is not good.
To not implement consequences for serious sin also reinforces the abusive person’s delusions that he can do as he please with no negative impact. It would enable him to stay blind to his sin and colludes with his destructive ways, which is not good for him, for her, or for their family. That kind of passivity does not honor God.
Peter concludes his teaching with these words. “Let those who suffer according to God’s will entrust their souls to a faithful Creator while doing good.” (1 Peter 4:19 ESV).
So friend, your first step is to tuck your heart and mind in close to God and ask for wisdom and discernment for your next steps. You also need to be crystal clear on your highest values. You said you fear walking away from a home because you believe he will destroy everything of value to you. I’m not sure what those valuable things are but I hope your mental, spiritual, physical and emotional health and that of your children are your highest values and priorities right now, even if it means a lower standard of living.
Friends, please share your support and wisdom of how you handled your fear of the next step.
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Dear sister, it seams to me that you already have tried staying well…
I am praying🙏🏽for you to hear the heart of God whispering to your heart, so you can be determined in what you have to decide to do. He is with you! He inderstands so well. He has a solution!
In my marriage, I did follow advice to use consequences. My husband was not interested in any consequence, as he was a strongly entitled man. I still incorporated consequences, which quickly led to my decision to see a lawyer. I could only do my part. He was unwilling to make any changes, so it made it easy for me to know what to do next. (although divorce is never easy), but at least I felt confident how God was leading .
This is succinctly said, Robin.
The way a spouse responds to consequences will guide the next step. If he is unrepentant, then more distance is needed in order to maintain our own health.
It’s about committing to OUR own health and wholeness (Jesus) regardless of how our spouse responds.
It’s simple, but certainly not easy.
Dear sweet sister, I hear your desperation, I see your pain, and agree with you in it. ” I’m desperate to understand how to restore my situation through any means necessary” You have spent the last 24 hours trying to find a concrete answer. I know I have done that too. Unfortunately there is no one answer, no one instruction, no one thing. It is a process inside of you that has to be done at this time. You have to come to the healing place of strength that shows the realization that you alone can not heal your marriage. I have been on this journey for 4 months and still don’t have the stay or leave well figured out. In a Facebook live I watched from 2016 it mentioned waiting well. That is what I am doing, working on my CORE, setting boundaries, speaking truth in love, stop pretending, reading my bible, spending time with God, and praying praying praying. I am intentional about renewing my mind, because if I don’t my husband will get me to believing lies of do more and all my fault. So I listen to at least one of Leslies videos a day, sometimes 3-4 even if I have heard them before. Be sure and check out her Facebook page, there is a lot there not on YouTube, and I get a lot out of them. I am faithful to that and reading my bible everyday, it helps keeps me from blurring God’s truth and my husband “truth”. And this is how I wait well, I am waiting to see how he reacts and am praying that the Holy Spirit will speak to me on if to stay well or leave well. Don’t get me wrong sweet sister, there are still dark days, days of desperation, days of weariness, days that I believe the lies….but Leslie helps me to renew my mind. I too can not have a community with out “disobeying” my husbands wishes of not involving people in our marriage and “making myself look like a princess, and him a monster”
I too have the question:
so what does the balance of good behavior and consequences look like?
I still don’t have a grasp on this, please Leslie more content on this is much needed. I too need more practical advice and insight on where/how to stand up. How to do this knowing that my husband will not ever “agree” and then what? For example: My husband doesn’t want me to go to church or have friends. How do I handle that, what do I say, and when he starts the crazy cycle blaming me……”If I worried as much about being a good wife as I did those things he wouldn’t have a problem with it” “All you do is fight to be away from me, I am just fighting to be with you” “Each other is all we need” “you think your so perfect, I am not the monster you have made me out to be” then what do I say/do? I express “E” but then what? Literally.
Godspeed to you all!!
Well said !
RENEA,
I’m making an assumption that your husband behave in a destructive way in your marriage and does not give you free ‘agency’ in many of ways especially towards you getting help for yourself which can and often will creat an invite of (outside) help to him.
Many destructive spouses and people in general want to keep their behavior private and do not want many to see the reality of the kind of person they are behind closed doors.
You wrote:
“ I too can not have a community with out “disobeying” my husbands wishes of not involving people in our marriage and “making myself look like a princess, and him a monster”
Ok, so your husband has lost healthy honest objectivity to be able to call the shots or for you to go along with his ‘comforts’. His wishes are not only destructive for himself but also very harmful toward you.
Not only is your husband behaving in a destructive way toward you but he is also trying to control any consequences related to your marital dynamic. This will not change without OTHERS, interventions and wise decisions on your part to get healthy and choose to live in truth and reality of your situation.
You are probably afraid of your husbands reactions and he knows this more than you do. If you decide the crazy cycle is over – make choices that free you of it and stop walking on eggshells thinking that this will somehow open your husband to a softer and healthy response. Your h needs to see that you no longer will play the games and that you are making healthy, God honoring choices for yourself and actually for his benefit too!
Aly thank you so much for your response. It went to my junk mail so I just now have seen it. I think I have that fixed now. I am going to print this out and read it over and over to help keep things clear I am trying to be fearless!! Thank you so much for your encouraging words.
Hi Renea,
You want practical advice on where/how to stand up:
Study God’s Word in a small group. Study by yourself. Before you open your Bible, ask Him to speak directly to you. Do these things regularly. Pray. Repent. Pray. Repent.
Each situation is so very different. Some men might get violent, others will pout. The Lord will lead you very, very personally. Outsiders – even professionals like Leslie- can only give you IDEAS or SUGGESTIONS. It is up to you to take each step in the power of the Holy Spirit. Pray, pray, pray. Fall to your knees in repentance before The Lord for your part in this dance, then get up and take just one more step.
‘Your word is a lamp to my feet, a light to my path’
A lamp never lights the entire path. The Lord will not show you the entire journey if He did, we wouldn’t meed to Trust Him. But He will most certainly show you your next step.
God bless you as you cling Tightly to Him.
Also Renea, you say you are expressing E but if you allow him to stop you from getting into a healthy church community, then you are not expressing E.
Empathy without enabling. By allowing him to isolate you, you are enabling his bad behaviour.
Get the support that you need – take consistent steps toward health and let him feel whatever bad feelings that this causes him. These feelings are not your problem. Don’t allow them to be.
Nancy thank you so much for your wisdom, the emails letting me know people were commenting were in my junk mail :/ I’ve got that fixed now I think.
I study and read my bible everyday but I have not really approached it the way you talked about, I will start there, thank you.
I actually have stood up and told him I was going to church and have attended faithfully for over a year. I am trying to make connections. BUT every few weeks the conversations I quoted are happening. Over and over him realizing that I am going doesn’t stop the badgering. I am starting to try to get opportunities to meet up with people/have friends. I don’t have many opportunities because everything was cut off for so long. But every time I do it is the same badgering. I go but the conversations go on and on. That is when I try to say I’m sorry that this makes you feel this way but none of that is true and still do whatever. Most of the time when I get home he is a you know what and badgering me. I guess I don’t know how to set a boundary for the badgering. The big blow ups I do, I refuse to participate and when needed leave the situation for a couple hours. But the constant badgering/ blaming conversations I don’t know how to respond to. In my heart all the crazy making things he says “goes in one ear and out the other” I know the truth, his words don’t live in my heart, God does and His words. I just don’t know how to respond when he is saying this stuff…..in a matter of fact calm voice, “just expressing his pain” If you know of any scriptures to point me to I would love to study them.
Thank you so much Nancy!!
You can’t put a boundary on the badgering. That is beyond your control. How dare he speak to you in such an evil manner! You are extremely unsafe. Resisting his abuse will lead to stronger forms of controlling you, often physical violence.
It is time for you to physically separate from him. That is the boundary you need to implement. Do it wisely. Have a plan. Men like him don’t change. Only you can change. You are, and have been on extreme danger living with such a person.
Your brain is using the survival technique called denial. Look up denial and abuse. When you finally get away, you can detox and think clearly. Your sick partner wants to control others. He stays with you for a variety of reasons that benefit him. First of which is you are easy to bully and he has trained you to do what he wants. In his mind, your only worth is making his life better. He doesn’t realize you are a person, to him you are an object. Eventually, with counseling this will all become clear.
Choose freedom. Be brave. Make a plan. Staying in such relationships is martyrdom of your own making.
Renea,
Badgering is a form of abuse. Unfortunately it has been your ‘normal’ experience with such a spouse!
Tolerating it on any level is not (peace-making) or honoring to God and yourself especially your sanity. What is he saying???
‘Expressing his pain over you attending church? How crazy is that… it’s irrational and obviously some warped kind of insecure control tactic. He is ill and most likely won’t get help. But you can get help and you can make healthier choices for you!
Couple things… I think it’s a good thing that you are going to church regardless of your h’s position. Please be cautious of (new Christian friends in your church) many people in church communities have NO clue the dynamics of abusive relationships.
Get involved with professionals and others that are well educated in this place.
I am in basically the same place. I understand what she is saying. We live in a very rural area with little support and no family. With the restrictions in my state being more strict …. it is even harder. The resources that I have looked for just aren’t there and not experienced in this issue. My friends daughter is a terrible example of this. Her husband got a county job and has EVERYONE believing him. He even had her arrested once. My husband has already begun the smear campaign to a covert degree… but I found out. My church is not much support. “You just need more ‘love and respect.’”
I am actually more fearful of his behavior if I left. It is destructive at home but would be WAY worse if I left. Scary even. I don’t even own a vehicle, although I started looking. I have done my own personal homework. 🙂 My job-income is here on my farm and I haven’t been employed outside the home in over 20 years. I don’t value my things more than my children… but there isn’t even anything for rent and very few jobs available. I’ve looked.
You can find the help you need and make a wise plan. Don’t give up. A woman as strong as you can do this! I would begin looking for a counselor or life coach. It can be online or via telephone. Your choices are many! Baby steps…find some abuse counselors online and then call and interview them. Join a support group Leslie’s, Natalie Hoffman’s , Patrick Doyle’s and dig into learning. Have you looked up Dr.Ramona Probasco or read Lundy Bancroft? Most sites have lists of resources, make some calls and let people help you.
If your location doesn’t offer the help you need, you may need to leave it. There is a big, beautiful world out there with freedom, joy, purpose and pleasure. Sometimes, you have to do stuff scared and take a risk. Ok, there aren’t resources where you live, there is your answer. Think big, throw a wide net. Be willing to go anywhere. You have a ton of marketable talent. Call a nationwide job search agency.
I agree with Free. No need to stay in the same community. But you must make a very careful plan first, if you do want to leave. Meanwhile, stay well. Maintain some boundaries and do your best to protect your heart.
I am a mess right now. I just found out that my husband has been deceiving me with his drinking and tobacco use. I have proof of how much he is drinking (which is most every day) and have asked him for the last week to come clean with me about everything he is doing. He only admitted the parts he wanted to admit but I know that he is flat out still lying to me. I never thought in a million years that he would be drinking as much as he’s drinking but I got wise and started investigating. I honestly don’t know what to do. I have asked him over and over again to not lie and come clean and he refuses to do so. Right now I can’t believe anything that comes out of his mouth. I need advise please ………….!
Karen S,
I’m really sorry for what you are going through! Maybe others will post soon and maybe offer some input. It’s heartbreaking when we realize the person we think we know isn’t honest about things and also has been not willing to be honest even after the fact. When you lose trust like that it can feel overwhelming and also can leave us feeling like what else is being hidden??
Do you have close friends that you can trust for support or do you have an individual counsel that could help you in this situation?
I have a close friend, but she is not giving me much support. I am just really overwhelmed right now. Thanks so much for your kind words.
So to Patrick Doyle’s site and join the educational and on line support group for $39 a month. Also try Flying Higher with Natalie Hoffman. Get educated. You need that first. Watch Leslie’s you tube teaching. I think you also need to talk to someone at Ala-non.
Thanks for all the resources! I haven’t heard of Patrick Doyle or Natalie Hoffman. Will definitely check those out.
Karen S, I agree with Free that you can get good support from Al-Anon, which is for family members of alcoholics. You will learn how to live with someone who drinks or has other substance abuse issues. Get a sponsor for yourself as soon as you get to know the others in the group enough to find someone you are comfortable with. It is very hard to live with someone you cannot trust. Keep on learning through Leslie’s videos and the other things that are recommended here, and especially learn how to get strong enough to establish some healthy (for you) boundaries. And above all, lean in closer to the Lord. He will be your guide and protector.
Hey Karen,
I’m sorry to hear about this deception. What a shock to realize this. My advice…. stay here, read Les,ie’s book, videos, look into Patrick Doyle…..all of this though, do it for YOU. Right now, from your post, you are very focused on his behaviour and on needing him to change.
Focus on your own growth and lean into God.
Thanks Nancy.
Karen, I understand your frustration. I offer a reality check on substance addiction. An alcoholic will go to any length to deny, conceal and continue his drinking. Asking them to come clean about it is futile. And what good would knowing his inventory actually do for you? You can work with what you do know; how he looks, smells, talks, behaves are all indicators of his intoxication (or lack thereof). Your husband will only stop what he’s doing if HE wants to; usually because the consequences and suffering it brings him finally outweigh the fear of being without his anesthesia. The impact it is having on you or others is immaterial to him. My suggestions are to find support for yourself, such as Al-Anon, or any fellowship group where you can connect with others with similar hardships. They can help you decide on boundaries to set, and what to do when your husband disregards the boundaries. As you gain clarity and strength of your own, you will discern what to do about living with or apart from an alcoholic.
I do sense a real urgency in our dear friend’s message. You have studied and searched for answers very diligently within a short amount of time. I do not know how long you have been married, but I do want to say you have survived this far and in your consideration of staying well, you may need to give yourself more time to practice the things you are learning. I have been married for 43.5 years and learned about Leslie’s CORE less than a year ago. I did have her Emotionally Destructive Relationships book years ago. It is so helpful to have clarity and to realize that we are not the one who is totally at fault as our husband’s would like to make us feel(this way they do not have any responsibility to work on their issues). As you choose one thing to work on at a time like gaining Courage to see the truth and to have clarity in what is happening, you will grow in wisdom. As you begin to take care of your needs more, you will find more inner strength. If you have neglected yourself, this will seem so strange. If you have been wanting your husband to cherish you and take emotional care of you, you will learn that for now, it won’t happen. So how to stay well is a process of growth…Renea earlier in these comments is doing a great job of watching Leslie’s videos daily. I have a dear friend who also has gone through Leslie’s videos and she surprisingly allowed herself to stay listening to a relative’s verbal bashings for a long time. One boundary that may help to start with is to stop more quickly being in the presence of a person who abuses us. To say, “Time out… I will come back in an hr[or a later time if safe] after we both have the ability to use calmer voices.” Then we take action and go to another room, or go in our car for a ride with our cell phone[we plan a plan to stay safe and move, don’t wait for their approval]. I am noticing that when my husband is feeling these boundaries that he is even thinking that he is a “victim”. In my reading and understanding, I know this to be false. I am learning that I do not need my husband or others to believe the truth before it does become the truth. I had been dependent on that. Instead of remaining quiet accepting his point of view as truth, I have been giving him my “re-framed” description of how I see things respectfully. It is a process. Practice living in God’s truth, and keep studying and practicing CORE.
am learning that I do not need my husband or others to believe the truth before it does become the truth.
So Good!!!
Thank you Lois for this reply and to others who have been in lengthy marriages and share the learning and changes that can still be made. I also really appreciate the courage of the original question and all of the loving and constructive responses. There are those of us out here who don’t quite know how to put it all into words. I have been blessed by all of you today.
It’s human to want to know ‘where is this going?’ Or ‘how will this end?’ And these questions become more pronounced as our fear increases.
God typically doesn’t answer those questions. He desires our Trust in HIM.
The only control I have is over me. I can only commit to walking closer to Him – which is the same thing as committing to health and wholeness.
If I am committed to becoming more healthy, then other people’s responses to me will show me how close I can be to them, while maintaining my ‘health walk’. If their response regularly draws me further from God and my path to health, then I have an adjustment to make. It’s not them that needs to change, it’s me.
Nancy, thank you for this. Your words have given me the exact clarity I need.
Well said Leslie. An abuse victim has hard choices to make. Many will bring her censure from others. But, she must put her mental and physical safety and those of her children first, with the help of God.
Thank you for your response. I’m in a similar situation, except that my husband has not spoken to me for almost two years , we share the same space and still demands sex sometimes. I always refuse but would feel guilty after.
Your reply to this person has helped me a great deal.
The best decision I ever made came from Leslie’s last paragraph in her response to todays question.
Leslie’s work has been blessed resource of affirmation during my time of healing.
I can not imagine as a mother, working through the emotional struggle of staying well or leaving well. I survived a 26 yr marriage to a narcissist. You could not share your true feelings with him because it was information that he used in his covert emotional abuse. When he realized marriage would not give him all the things I had accomplished in life or traits in my character, he set out to take everything from me or place me in a position to give it up one small step at a time. Over the years we had moved constantly. I had given away my family, friends and my career but nothing made him happy.
When my life changing ” indecisive moment” came, the Holy Spirit stepped in and gave me the where with all to stop and ask him to take my emotions captive. I needed to get on my knees for days with God and refuse to rise until I had clear direction from him. I spent 7 weeks in constant bible study, morning to night. I gained the deeper understanding and clarity I needed to make a decision. This time had felt different from the beginning and I was tired of being sick and tired. By this time I was so run down I knew it had to be a total God thing for my life to change. God had placed me in a location that would require a radical decision on my part and he knew once I made it, I would not go back on it. I had followed my husband 1500 miles across the country into ministry for the last 2 1/2 years.
To continue to live in this type of toxic relationship tears at the very core of who you are as a woman of God. Every compromise creates guilt in our subconscious because we are quietly denying who we are in Christ. I had to allow myself to embrace God’s view of me and love for me. I felt so guilty for letting my husband treat me this way that I did not feel worthy of all God had for me. I felt I should have been stronger and done more; satan used this to keep me pinned down.
I have heard all my life that ” the truth shall set you free”. I know what it means now. That truth and its understanding gave me the strength and security I needed to trust and stand strong for me.
There is no shadow of turning in him. If he said it, you can grab hold with both hands and watch what he will do in your life.
This is beautiful, Mary.