The Hardest Kind of Love: When Staying or Leaving are Both Hard
Morning friend,
I’m pondering a verse in 1 John 4:16: “God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them.” The Bible tells us that God is love — that is his essence, his being. Everything God does is in love, with love, by love. Yet if we’re honest, we don’t always feel that love or believe it is meant for us, especially when life gets hard.
At times our experience of God feels more unloving, absent, indifferent, or harsh. We cry out, “Why, God? Why do you allow this suffering? Why don’t you answer my prayer for healing? Why aren’t you changing my husband into the man I know he could be?”
Could it be that we have misunderstood what love is? Love isn’t always cushy and cuddly. Sometimes love says no. Sometimes love does hard things and causes hurt, because that’s what’s best for the other person — or for yourself. I remember a time when my young daughter was bitten on her cheek by a dog during our vacation. The doctor at the local emergency room said the bite marks were too jagged to leave unstitched and referred us to a plastic surgeon. The nearest hospital with a plastic surgeon was two hours away. My daughter begged not to go. The entire drive there she screamed, “I don’t want stitches — I’m fine. Leave me alone.” We kept driving, knowing that someday she’d be thankful we didn’t listen to her.
In today’s post, we’re tackling the question of how love responds when someone refuses to look at themselves, change, or grow. Is it godly love to go along with, or even enable, someone’s self-deception without any resistance or feedback? Or does godly love sometimes have to speak hard truths, even when truth hurts or isn’t welcome?
Question: When I got married, my husband and I were excited to build a family. After the wedding, he ultimately changed his mind about having children, stating he is too old. This has been a lifelong dream of mine, and I am still very much interested. He takes offense that I would even consider divorce to pursue my goal. I was almost willing to give up my dream to keep my marriage.
However, I have been told by family and friends that my husband has narcissistic tendencies, for a variety of reasons. I work in healthcare, and between seeing patients who present similarly to my husband and doing some research, I’ve come to think he may be on the spectrum. So I wonder if his narcissism is actually rooted in neurodivergence. We have attempted marriage counseling three times, and he refuses to return. When I ask him to try coaching instead, to address “our differences,” he refuses that as well.
I love him very much and I also see the reality that he is not going to change his mind about having children or about attending counseling. I can see that life is full of choices and that I have big decisions to make. Any feedback on these difficult decisions would be greatly appreciated.
Answer: Sweet one, you do have some difficult decisions ahead. It can feel like a bait and switch when someone says one thing but later changes his mind — especially around something as significant as having children.
You’ve indicated several things. First, you love your husband. Second, you’re not willing to give up your dream of having children. Does his unwillingness mean he’s completely closed to the idea of children in any form — even fostering or adopting older children? And I’m curious: has he shown any care or compassion around your sadness and disappointment over his change of heart?
Third, trusted people in your life have suggested your husband is rather self-referenced. Whether that stems from narcissism or neurodivergence is unclear, but he has taken a firm stand that he is unwilling to explore it, seek help, or change. That is a significant red flag. It tells you that he is not open to working on himself to make the marriage better for both of you. You also mentioned that he has taken offense when you prioritized your desire to have children by even considering divorce. All of this is important information. What does it say to you?
I hear you. You love him — and he loves himself — but the bigger question is: does he love you? Even if he does not claim to be a Christian or to embody godly love, does he seek your best and highest good? Or are things regularly directed toward his interests, his comfort, and his well-being?
You’ve indicated that you suspect your husband may be on the spectrum. If your husband is on the spectrum, self-referenced behavior often means he loves you loving him — not you as a separate person with your own needs. When something benefits him, he doesn’t give your needs or feelings much thought. If you are kind to him, serve him, and tend to his needs, he feels loved and content. However, genuine love for another requires sacrifice, compromise, and genuine care for what the other person cares about. It involves growth, receiving feedback, and learning how to build and maintain safety and trust in the most intimate of relationships. He’s told you he doesn’t want children — but he’s also clearly told you he doesn’t want to grow, learn, or change.
So now what? How do you respond? That will take prayer and wise counsel, but looking ahead, I see several paths before you.
Path 1: Keep trying to get him to change his mind, while growing increasingly frustrated and angry as he continues to refuse.
Path 2: Be the biblical Ezer wife and lovingly speak truth into his unwillingness to partner with you in creating a marriage that works for both of you. An Ezer wife is a warrior wife. One who is willing to enter battle for her husband’s good. This doesn’t involve nagging or threatening, but it does involve compassionately challenging his inability to consider your needs, feelings, and desires.
For example, you might say, “I’m not happy in our marriage. Does that matter to you?” Notice how he responds. Do your feelings/needs matter? Or you might say, “You told me that you no longer want children. And now you are unwilling to go to coaching with me to work on our differences. Does what I want or need matter to you?”
You can’t make your husband want to change or care about you — but you can invite him to. When he doesn’t, because it genuinely doesn’t occur to him, you can invite him to get curious about that absence of concern. Is marriage only about his happiness, his needs, his feelings — or is it about yours too? He may not be ready or willing for counseling, but that doesn’t mean you can’t invite him to reflect on how his self-referenced thinking is affecting you and your marriage. If he is unwilling to enter that kind of conversation, where does that leave you?
Path 3: Come to peace. Accept without resentment that he is unwilling to grow, or to care for you and your needs, wants, and feelings. That may require you to do some grief work with spiritual guidance so that his choices don’t poison your spirit (Romans 12:21). As you come to accept what you cannot change, what does that mean for you? For your marriage? You have some tough choices ahead about your next steps — for your own well-being and future.
Does God allow divorce? Many will say no. You will need to wrestle with what you believe but below are two passages to consider.
Exodus 21:10–11: “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making payment.”
A slave wife was the lowest person in a patriarchal culture — yet God cared how her husband treated her. If she was not provided with her basic needs, including the prospect of a future heir to care for her in old age, her husband’s neglect constituted grounds for divorce. Her needs mattered, not just his.
1 Corinthians 7:15 speaks of a woman married to an unbeliever who wishes to “leave,” saying she is not under bondage but is to live in peace. This verse is interpreted in different ways, but leaving isn’t simply about moving out of the house. Someone may live away from the marital home — a spouse working overseas or serving in the military — while remaining fully committed to the marriage. Likewise, there are those who live under the same roof but have already “left” the marriage covenant in every meaningful sense.
Not everyone will agree on these passages, and that is where you will need to seek God, examine your own heart, speak honestly with your spouse, seek wise counsel and make a hard choice. It is a tough decision — but either path will bring challenges and opportunities for growth.
Friend, we all face moments where love can look and feel unloving. What helps you move forward in faith when you’re in a season or situation where a choice to love feels hard and scary?
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Thank you for this response! I truly wish I had heard it 30 years ago. I did love my now ex-husband and he said he welcomed children. He also had a 5 year old daughter who he adored. Over the next eight years, we tried fostering and infertility paths until finally getting pregnant naturally and giving birth to a beautiful daughter. When the first daughter left home, his true colors began to very gradually show. From my perspective he disengaged unless I asked him specifically for help. I truly didn’t believe that divorce was an option.
When my daughter was 10, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. For that whole year I juggled working full time, juggling surgery, chemo and radiation, and my daughter’s needs mostly alone. My then husband would only help when I specifically asked him. Eventually my daughter shared that her dad would say nasty and hurtful things to her and I realized he had crossed the line with verbal, emotional and spiritual abuse.
Church counsel was no help as no one seemed to know how to help guide us and divorce was wrong. Counseling began for my daughter and she was diagnosed with complex PTSD from the trauma. She is doing better now almost 10 years later but will work through this the rest of this life.
Long before I’d heard of Conquer, I read Unholy Charade, written by a pastor, that I understood divorce can be an option. I did divorce my husband. He would later be diagnosed with narcissistic tendencies and anger issues.
My advice would be to ask questions and talk about expectations specifically and directly as recommended above. Keep in mind what you’ve learned so far in Conquer. God has used the materials and videos directly to confirm and heal a lot of the pain I’ve felt in the decision I made to divorce. I pray God blesses you with His peace in a mighty way as you ask hard questions and navigate this process moving forward.
I have raised three children and while it was the most beautiful season of my life, it has also been the hardest. I did not have my husbands support, except financially, on many big and small issues so I just have a question for you to think about. As much as you desire to be a mother, is your husband Father Material?
Make decisions right now from the Holy Spirits guidance. If he says yes, you’ll know. If he closes a door, you’ll know. Anything in your own strength, will not be worth it. Knowing He is supporting your decisions makes things possible.
I agree with the above. You husband is not father material. Both you and your children will suffer under him.
My husband and I had 4 children. It turned out he was an oppressor. Everything revolved around him, what he wanted, what he liked… It was all about him. He controlled everyone and everything. We were not allowed to have our own opinions.
Once children are involved, and you see them getting hurt by how they are being treated, you will be be further hurt, and you may blame yourself for it if you pushed him into it.
It also will become exceedingly difficult to leave. One of the issues will be custody. Mine were older, late teens and young adults. Therefore, I didn’t have to fight that battle, but in DivorceCare, I have witnessed the ugliness other moms had to go through – and many of them lossed because they did not have the financial means to hire a good lawyer.
I left after 26½years of marriage when my children were older. So far, I haven’t divorced my husband, I am separated for over 6 years now. Not sure if I ever will divorce. That route is an option as well.
Unfortunately, living with an abusive father has left its mark on my children. All of them had (complex) PTSD., still working through it.
Praise the LORD, my son is being a very good husband and father (His family lives with me). He and his wife chose to go through marriage counseling early in their marriage to make sure nothing bad had cropped up on either side.
My girls however, are struggling to trust men. They are dating, but have a very hard time to move beyond just dating to get married – what if their boyfriends turn out yo be abusers as well?
I know it is hard when your heart yearns for children, but count it a blessing that you have none in your situation.
Going through tough times refine us.
I found the Psalms very helpful. I also did a huge amount of research on marriage and divorce before leaving. It wasn’t easy.
You know your situation far better than anyone else.
Seek the LORD above all. Lean hard on him. Be in his word, and be in constant prayer. He will guide you and lead you.
Make sure no root of bitterness springs up in your heart, it so easily does. If it does, immediately weed it out.
May the LORD be with you, and may he grant you his peace as you seek him for direction and guidance. And may he convict your husband of his sin.
Blessing to you.
The fact that he may not be good father Material is so very important. I had four children with my husband who loved babies.. once they were about 5 or 6 he was done enjoying them. He became verbally and emotionally abusive towards them and me. . I ended up rasing them by myself . After 13 years of marriage we got divorced.
I can’t get past the first sentence of your question. If your husband was having doubts about having children before the marriage, and you had a chance to discuss this possibility with full recognition that he was unsure, at least you would have a chance to weigh the impact of that possibility prior to the marriage. But if he led you to believe that he was also excited to start a family before the marriage and then changed his mind promptly after you got married (knowing that this was a very important hope/goal for you), this sounds like a type of entrapment used by abusers and is a big red flag. Please seek God and listen to his nudging. I pray you will be able to find peace and clarity going forward.
Would you build your dream home on a foundation of shifting sand ? You began building a life with someone who is not true to his word. A righteous man swears to his own hurt and changes not. Shifting sand. Jesus speaks plainly about what happens to the house built on shifting sand. If God put the desire in your heart for a family and this is not a shared desire you are yoked with someone pulling in a different direction. How can either of you get to where your hearts are leading you? What are you afraid of?
From my personal experience and advice gleaned from various sources, the decision to stay or leave is solely on you. You should be completely honest with yourself and decide if not having children is something you can live with for the rest of your life. Are you willing to continue to live with him despite the fact that he trapped you into marriage knowing fully well that he does not want children. You know the answer to these questions and more. On the other side, narcissists are not good with children and that will add more stress to your relationship since children come with their own challenges in a marriage. As a mother, would you be able to tolerate his narcissist attitude towards your kids? It is one thing to tolerate for yourself but when kids are involved your emotions are torn in a million other ways. Think about this, take your time, I must say, no rush. Meanwhile, if you decide to stay, do it on your terms. Think self first cause the narcissist emotions are never for anyone but themselves. You cannot change anyone but you can decide what is best for you and your mental health as well as the mental health of the children you want to bring into the world. Narcissists are no father-material. The Lord guide you.
My advice (and experience) is that you can ask your husband questions like “Does what I want or need matter to you?” but that doesn’t mean his answer will align with reality. He will likely say “yes, of course it does” because he doesn’t want to look bad … while his actions very clearly show that isn’t true. Watch his actions… don’t believe his words.
This is a battle you are going to wrestle through for sure. It took me years to fight through the “fog of confusion” and the counsel of the church telling me I don’t have grounds. This is between YOU and GOD. You have to quiet the outside noise. You are going to grow closer to HIM than you likely ever have been and know his character more than ever which is going to help you navigate this. To be honest getting out and away from my husband has bought the most clarity. I participated in 1 year program called Re:generation (similar to Celebrate Recovery) and God brought so much clarity with that! I felt God prompting me to leave yet I still struggled to believe that was “ok” to do. The night before I was set to move out I was arguing with the Lord and trying to find a way to stay but so overcome with anxiety and over-thinking that I went to bed and said Lord I give this to you and I want you to give me a full, peaceful night’s sleep and show me in the morning what I am to do. He did just that. I slept soundly. My 6 year old daughter also got in bed with me that very night and snuggled me and held my hand which is something she hadn’t done before. It brought tears to my eyes knowing it was from the Lord. That next morning I woke up and very clearly felt the Lord tell me “you *have* to do this”… so I obeyed.
My heart is with you… this is such a TOUGH TOUGH situation to be in. Praying for CLARITY and PEACE for you my friend.
Great point Marcie – words are not enough. If he cares about your feelings and perspective, he will SHOW it by his actions.
I honestly find it impossible to have *any* sort of conversation with people like this. It’s impossible to reason with someone so unreasonable and someone so committed to lies, deception and their “image.” It is a pointless pursuit. If you haven’t been in a relationship with someone like this it’s impossible to understand.
This is why the counsel of the church is often so unhelpful because they know very little about emotional abuse, have never experienced it themselves and think the solution is as simple as “communicate more and go on dates.” I told my church counselor many a time that I don’t feel safe with my husband and that he is emotionally abusive and he couldn’t have ignored me more. He kept pressuring me to open up to my husband, to “stop punishing him”, go on dates and “work toward being physical with him again.” I told him multiple times how unsafe I feel, gave so many examples of my husband’s bullying behavior and he just swept on past all of it. Why is the man’s physical needs prioritized over a woman’s need for safety and to just be treated with basic dignity & respect???
I felt very unheard and uncared for by everyone involved. It was secondary abuse in a way. I guess maybe this contributed to my strength to leave because I was pushed to the breaking point where I was like I don’t care anymore, I’m all the way out. I don’t care what anyone thinks. I cannot do this another second.
I grew up with a diagnosed paroind schizophrenic father who was very religious. The middle child of 5. My mother was a godly woman who prayed daily and loved Jesus. I had great friends I was around alot so spared some of the abuse. My sister’s didn’t fare as well. As an adult, I had great mentors and council. However, I married a man who was on the narcissistic spectrum.
It took me 20 years and 2 kids to realize it.
I kept bringing up my needs only to be constantly hurt. Repeated counseling didn’t work (I was always the problem). I became the advocate for the children at my expense. I also gave and gave of myself.
When they were out of the home, I allowed my hurt emotions to show far too much which didn’t help. But I also pressed into the Lord. My faith brought me through, many a night crying, and cancer.
The final straw was when my baby sister died and I had to handle the funeral and received no help or compassion from him. After counsel from 2 pastors, I choose to “separate” but remain in the marriage. I go to a different church ( he is very religious too), and have my own social life. I went to counseling and beside Leslie. I read “Is it Abuse” by Darby. She wrote it for the church, and even though the church had the book, it was not used
I was hurt deeply by the churchs we went to. My counselor was a biblical counselor familiar with emotional abusive husbands. She said if I choose to stay, be kind as scripture says. That is my difficult cross to bare staying. He’s content as I take care of his needs. He is content to have Bible studies with his “brothers”. (Other people always held a bigger place than me.)There is no intimacy, hasn’t for years. I am 42 years into this and I have a closeness with the Lord I never had before. He has become my husband. I think I was “conditioned” growing up to feel less than. But a book I read “Gently & Lowly” The heart of Christ for Sinners and Sufferers by Dane Orland changed that.. I highly recommend it. I think every believers has to choose their path.
At 75, I haven’t encountered a church that knows how to feal with emotional abuse. But this is my experience only.
I know it’s been hard. I was also lied to and he didn’t really want me emotionally and sexually. He was unfaithful for 20 years, (physically and emotionally )I was a good trophy I guess. I was the one who wanted any intimacy and so in that sense that’s why we have 4 children. Im so sorry about you not being able to have any of your own.
Just want to encourage you, God knows your longing and heart. May HE continue to guide you and be your safe place as you wait on HIM. I know several beautiful ladies who married later on in life, have wonderful husbands, and were able to be grandma’s though never birthed any themselves.
IT’s the lying that I still haven’t gotten past, I trust him now,, BUT
Even though
I’ve seen GOD at work,,definitely in this case. If he wouldn’t get better and stayed stuck, there’s no way I could’ve stayed..
We are still together (42Yrs) it’s better each time I left or he knew I honestly couldn’t put up with him anymore, he’d get better. He has the last 2 years for sure.
My dear, I have walked in your shoes, literally having a very similar experience. Husband presented himself one way before marriage, including wanting additional children, but after getting married, showed his true character and personality. Including denying ever wanting more children. Then several years later, said he was open to adoption, only to change his mind on that, as well. Fourteen horrible years of marriage, but because I married in my early 30’s, by the time i got clear on the abuse occurring in my marriage (covert narcissist), I was already into my late 40’s, fertility window was closing. I’m now mid 50’s, and unless God opens my womb again, there is no chance for me to have my own children. I grieve constantly. I urge you to not waste time staying married to someone who likely doesn’t really love you as much as he loves the “idea” of you (or he loves that you love him), as this life is short. If God put on your heart the desire to have children, remember that those desires are important. I feel mostly like I wish I were already dead since my life holds little joy, that I am bitter and angry about the deception and manipulation of my ex, and all the lost time. Watching others (easily) have children stabs me in the heart every single time, even though I am happy for them. Be honest with yourself if you can live happily denying yourself your dream of children and a family.
You are thinking clearly. Your husband is not interested in changing. He lied to you to get you to marry him. Having children is a basic expectation in marriage. Leave now, while you have no children. You can build a life for yourself, a happy one. Don’t have children with this man.
He sounds very dishonest in pretty much every wa.y.
3 years in this group I saw the kind of Dads these guys are to.
Just as selfish with the kids and then pit the kids against you.
I came in this group a total people pleasing doormat and got a wide eye opening of how well i served my masters in my life and thought I was being a good christian but realized most people lovebombed me and used my good heart of giving and as soon as I didnt do what they wanted when and how I became disgardable.
U can tell alot by if they get defensive gaslight shame or and punish you its a narcissist
They have no empathy and listen to you and can feed it backon a platter.
Were the 1st 6 month seem like perfect and then he pulled away more?
Also many times 1/2 the kids become arm extensions of Dad.
So thats something to consider.
Are you doing most of the giving and bending?
I feel sad for you marrying this man and then he pulls the rug out on a major thing like having babies.
I never had children because how my mom was
but I would of never stole that right from a man that wanted a baby.
I’m sure you wouldnt either.
I know you love him but codependency love can feel like you cant live without him.
If I was in your shoes I would ask point blank one liner ?’s
Like What if I absolutely want a child what would you do?
Do you care I want a child?
Why did you lie to me about something this important?
Do you think I should just give up that thought?
You may not like the answersbut you need to know.
This works well for me strip all emotions and feelings down to just facts so you think from prefrontal cortex
Ask yourself point blank ?
If i strip all my fears of loss away.
Would I want to give up my chance of having babies?
Also there is a high chance he would resent you if he already said no and not be there and say I never wanted this you did.
I hate to see that happen to you.
Let God lead you.
Just giving suggestions of how to pull out the man behind the curtain
Right down his reactions is what I do for 1 month
It will tell you alot.
Dont buy the excuse I just changed my mind.
Thats a lie. Its entrapment . U dont just suddenly change your mind on something that big and no respectful person would lie and tear that choice away and then guilt and shame there wife into going with that program.
Your kids deserve a father that loves them.
Hugs and prayers.
Sorry for your pain
Something else to ponder is that neurodivergent or not, even if autistic, each person has a moral compass and their behavior is a good Litmus test of their compass. Not their words. READ THAT AGAIN. Sharing the following for reference: My now ex-husband, was also diagnosed on the autism spectrum while we were married and I doubled down in empathy and understanding for his diagnosis. I though my love would help him come around to “being normal” and reasonable in logic, emotions, and understanding. The church was not helpful, not because they were bad, but because people who are not familiar with high functioning autism don’t understand the Jekyll-Hyde public vs. private personas. The church also doesn’t understand the constant self-reference perspective damage over the years when living 24/7 with them. My suggestion is to surround yourself with 3 or 4 people educated in narcissism or autistic neurodivergence (who are not bitter because of their own experiences) that you can talk with and share with. They can’t tell you what to do, but just to have a couple people who “get it” and understand your situation is priceless. I found a friend in church who’s brother was a neuroscientist and autistic and she got it. I also had a friend who’s young adult son was on the spectrum and she in her endless love and adoration for her son, told me to accept this was never going to change because “they don’t see a need to change.” Hugs to you in your big decisions coming up.
It’s very clear he not someone you can trust, that is he told you something he knew was important to you and just when you enter into a marriage covenant with him, he tells you he no longer wants the very thing he knows you desire the most!😳
To me, this is manipulative at the least and trust has been broken at the most.
My question to you, my dear sister in Christ is, can you honestly trust this man in anything else since ?
For me, l will struggle to trust him and TRUST is a key ingredient if your marriage is to last and reflect how Christ loves the Church, his bride.
I believe you don’t have to look any further for answers. His actions are speaking loud and clear!
The issue here is: are you listening 🦻🏽?
I once came across a quote the said: There is a message in the way someone treats you. Are you listening?
It’s very clear he not someone you can trust, that is , he agreed to something he knew was important to you and just when you entered into a marriage “covenant ” with him, he tells you he no longer wants the very thing he knows you desire the most!😳
To me, this is manipulative at the least and trust has been broken at the most.
My question to you, my dear sister in Christ is, can you honestly trust this man in anything else?
For me, l will struggle to trust him and TRUST is a key ingredient to have with him if your marriage is to last and reflect how Christ loves the Church, his bride.
I believe you don’t have to look any further for answers. His actions are speaking loud and clear!
The issue here is: are you listening 🦻🏽?
I once came across a quote the said: There is a message in the way someone treats you. Are you listening?
Sometimes we refuse to listen to what someone is telling us because it’s not what we want to hear. We go into the” convincing mode” to get them to tell us what we want to hear. Please listen!
He doesn’t want children. Now you get to choose for yourself how you move forward: chase your dream or deny yourself. I feel your pain but like the other comments have mentioned already, it is even more painful to watch the father of your children mistreat your children. It’s a lot harder to bear. Safe yourself and your future children this pain. Be blessed
Sometimes we refuse to listen to what someone is telling us because it’s not what we want to hear. We go into the” convincing mode” to get them to tell us what we want to hear. Please listen!
He doesn’t want children. Now you get to choose for yourself how you move forward: chase your dream or deny yourself. I feel your pain but like the other comments have mentioned already, it is even more painful to watch the father of your children mistreat your children. It’s a lot harder to bear. Safe yourself and your future children this pain. Be blessed
A big thank you to Leslie and everyone who responded to my question! I posed a challenging scenario/ question and many of you shared thoughtful perspectives drawn from your own lived experiences. I am so touched by your time, willingness to engage with my situation, and heartfelt responses. Your honesty and insights have given me a lot to reflect on. Am grateful to you for helping me see my dilemma from angles I might not have considered on my own. Also, thank you for your prayers and be assured of mine!