Can I Leave? I Don’t Trust Him
Morning friend, I am headed to Italy with my sister for a spiritual reset/retreat. We will be staying in Assisi, home of St. Francis, and will have lots of time to think, pray, walk, and enjoy God’s beauty. Pray for our safety and renewal. This has been on our bucket list for a number of years and I can hardly believe it’s happening.
Today’s Question: I have been married for 26 years. For at least 20 years of that my husband has used information about conspiracy, politics, health and other information on the internet to control me and my daughters. It has been so crazy, if I told you everything you would not believe it.
I have endured, and even enabled, his obsession with chem trails, medical and health conspiracy, COVID Conspiracy, economic peril and been terrorized by oppressive conservative politics, and spiritual bullying. Along with that there has been blame shifting (like blaming me for the loss of his teaching certificate because we were not having enough sex), and continual dismissal of my emotions, boundaries, needs and requests.
Several times I have put my foot down and he has conceded only to start with another obsession or crisis later on. The funny thing is that no one knows all of this about him except me and our daughters! He saves it all for us. He often claims that he does not remember nor has he ever done some of these things!
In my journey to get healthy, see the patterns more clearly, set boundaries, and resist his manipulation I have fully confronted him on his behavior and required him to seek counseling, which he is doing.
Here is my question/dilemma. I am exhausted and admit that my heart is hardened against him. I am no longer bitter, just extremely protective. He is being “Mr. Cheerful, I am trying to change and do everything right” and I just cannot trust him. He is acting in ways that I wanted him to 15 years ago, but my heart is not responding. He has only been in therapy for about 2 months. How can I trust him? I stayed in the marriage to protect my children. They are nearly grown and I never want to live under the tyranny of fear and control again.
Can I leave him, even when he looks like he is reforming? Is it possible that our relationship is damaged beyond repair? Is that a good enough reason to leave? I love him as a person, pray for his soul and forgive him for being completely broken, but I do not trust him with my heart or emotions. I have found your podcasts and the Conquer Group extremely helpful and I would love more clarity on all this. It is so hard!! Thank you!
Answer: You’ve been through so much these 26 years, it’s totally understandable that you’re exhausted and protective. Two months of therapy and the new Mr. Cheerful does not erase the 20+ years of controlling craziness and conspiracy theories. Of course, you don’t trust him yet nor should you. There has not been enough time to see if the personal growth and change your seeing is because he sees the error of his thinking, or he’s scared he’s going to lose you and is placating and complying with your demand that he starts counseling. As you noted, he’s good at hiding his crazy thinking from others. Perhaps he’s now hiding it from you and even his counselor. You just don’t know.
You mentioned as you began getting healthier you set boundaries, put your foot down and eventually demanded he get help. All good steps. But now is not the time to revert to focusing on your marriage. You’ve probably heard me say before, unhealthy + unhealthy = toxic. He is unhealthy and so were you as you covered and enabled his control over you for so many years. Then you started your own journey to get healthier. Good for you. As you got healthier you stopped complying with his craziness and the crazy dance couldn’t work like it did before. Now, hopefully he is on his own journey to get healthier…. but time will tell….and two months time is not enough time.
Your question, “Can I leave him?”
This is a decision only you can make, with God’s guidance. Yes, you might seek wisdom from others and as you’ve been in our CONQUER program, you probably know my stand on this issue. But right now, I want to remind you that your life is yours to steward and you are responsible to live it well. I sense you have many regrets on how you’ve lived in compliance and submission to your husband’s far out ideas believing that you were doing what God wanted. I fear you might get caught in the same mindset believing that you have to trust him again even though your body and mind are screaming NO WAY!
What might be possible if instead of worrying about having to fully reconcile your marriage right now, you put the marriage question on the back burner and you continued your own healing and growth? What might be possible if you accepted without a guilt trip, that you don’t trust him right now, and might even need a temporary or permanent separation to fully heal and feel safe? And, as you continue to do your work by standing up for your own self in a godly, healthy way, start to pay attention to what happens with your spouse. Does he value and encourage the new healthier you? Is he growing to listen to your thoughts and feelings when you don’t align with his? Is he working hard to repair the damage he’s done with his daughters, learning to be a better father, man, person – not just trying to win you back so you won’t leave him?
I’d give yourself at least six months without pressuring him to do or change anything. Let him show you what he wants by his actions. Does he want to go to counseling? Get healthy? Be responsible? Be honest with himself and others? Does he want to be a good father? Do the work to repair broken trust? Wait and watch what he DOES not what he says. Don’t direct or demand. By taking the pressure off – both for yourself and for him, you will see more clearly if what he says and what he does align. Jesus says, “You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act.” (Matthew 7:16). And, as you continue to do your own work to get stronger and healthier, things will become much clearer what your next right step is regarding your marriage.
Friend, once trust is broken, what are some of the signs that give you a green light that trust can be repaired in a relationship?
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I think that your answer was right on. The only change I would add is separating for a full year at the minimum.
Yes, I agree with a little longer time span than 6 months to get healthy herself and observe if any changes occur in him or her own feelings.
Leslie, thank you for sharing with wisdom and discernment. Your last 2 paragraphs are what I am living right now, but it has been considerably longer than 6 months as I have learned, grown, grieved, and continued to heal. I had been married almost 34 years before it became clear I have lived in the cycle of covert, passive aggressive verbal and emotional abuse and control. I have really leaned on God for the last couple of years, and he has been faithful to provide every next step in my growth and healing journey, and show me who I really am. It’s not for the faint of heart, and emotionally detaching from my husband has been one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. I can say, though, it’s been every bit worth it. He’s been “working on it” for 3 years now in CBT and Recovery Group, and still takes the opportunity to devalue me when it presents itself. I have my own “safe space” in our home, and the love and support of many people, which have helped tremendously. I have compassion for how early childhood trauma shaped who he is, but my value as a child of God, made in the image of God, is non-negotiable. I certainly resonate with the “Mr. Cheerful” description and not trusting, and I am living more wholly than I have for a long time.
This is almost exactly my story as well. Thank you for sharing!!!
This is me too but I’m not sure the question was fully answered. Which is even if the person seems to be working on their problems, can trust after many repeat cycles and emotional abuse be healed? Personally in my case I feel that the trauma is too much. My body clenches around him and my health is suffering from the stress. Yes of course I’ve worked on myself for years in counseling and many other ways and don’t want a divorce but I can’t see trust healing or the relationship working .
Repairing trust begins with integrity in small things. Change must begin consistently and humbly.
“He that is unjust in small things, is also unjust in the greater: and he that is unjust in little things, shall fall by little and little.”
~ Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 19:5
Is your husband neurodivergent, by any chance? This sounds very similar to my experience, except my husband wasn’t fixated on anything like that. Turned out, after 18 years, he has ADHD.
He started his journey to recovery after I completely detached. 3.5 years in and I still have nothing to offer him emotionally even tho he has done a lot of consistent growth. There are still harmful things that he does and says, but without feeling any romantic connection to him, I don’t even care to point them out anymore. He says I need to be the one to pray to God to heal our marriage. I can’t. It chokes me.
I relate to your comment and my heart goes out to you except my husband has Autism and adhd. It makes for a wild ride. 🙁
Ladies, may I add…neurodivergences are thinking and learning differences, not reasons or excuses for abusive behavior. Neither is personal trauma, or life experiences at any age.
Unless a person’s brain differences make it virtually impossible for them to function in society, ADHD, autism, OCD, dyslexia, or any other divergence does not preclude anyone from learning, growing, choosing to be responsible for their behaviors and the effects of their behaviors on others, learning to have empathy, learning to communicate kindly….or any of the other “ skills” needed to create a healthy relationship. If they so choose.
The problem is that many people ( yes, usually men) prefer to think of themselves and their choices in thinking and behaviors as the “ right” way to be; that everyone else…especially their wives…should accommodate them.
Many people, diagnosed or not with neurodivergent thinking patterns, are highly intelligent, highly functional, and often successful in their careers.
They are just as responsible for themselves as anyone who is “ average” in their thinking patterns. I think it could be theorized that by the time these people are adults, if they are generally functioning well in society, that they have developed interpersonal skills they use with work associates and friends: they just choose not to bother using those skills with their wives…if we’ve spent years accommodating, pacifying, pleasing, and sacrificing ourselves for them
( note raised hand over here….ask me how I know🙄)
On the question of if or when we can trust their “ changes” are real? Any positive changes in my husband’s behavior have been minute , temporary, and transactional, so no, I don’t trust in his sincerity toward change.
My husband doesn’t think he needs to change his behavior or thinking, regardless of the harm to me or damage to our relationship. He thinks “ our problem” is that I don’t want to go back to wholly focusing on pleasing and accommodating him with no regard to my own mental, physical, financial, or emotional health or future .
I’ve learned a lot over the last few years , about boundaries, codependency, narcissistic behaviors. I’ve done all the “right” communication behaviors.
Darlene Lancer’s site, especially regarding codependency and narcissistic behaviors, has been illuminating: https://whatiscodependency.com/hidden-truth-about-codependent-relationships/
And I’ve realized: no matter how hard I try, no matter how much I sacrifice myself: I can’t change, control, or even influence my husband’s behavior. And I can’t be more than 50% of a marriage.
The problem isn’t that he CAN’T change, or that his brain isn’t capable of change; it’s that he WON’T.
That’s his answer. I used to make excuses for him…for decades.
Now my question for myself, after years of “ working on my marriage “, my focus is: What is best for me? How can I “ steward” myself, and love myself?
I am so sorry that you are hurting in this way. I lived in a very destructive marriage for 36 years. I left for safety reasons three times, never intending to seek divorce but needing healing for my own physical, spiritual, emotional, and mental reasons. I struggled with disappointing God and needing permission from Godly people to separate and eventually divorce. Through my work with Leslie, the Conquer group, Lisa Terkeurst, and several others, I learned that my decision and my work on me was between me and God. My husband claimed he was changing and sought help from a counselor, pastor, and several other people. It quickly became clear he was just trying to change his image and talk me into coming home so that all could go back to normal. He did not want to change his character or work on his behaviors that I could no longer live with. As you were advised, real change is obvious and over time trustworthy behaviors may make a difference in your desire to work on the relationship. BUT no matter what, a changed, redeemed, man who is honestly doing his own work, will give you the space and time to heal. I remember a podcast or video of Leslie’s that described how to know when someone is really changing, She described a man who had hurt his wife while driving angrily in their car. Later, after he had begun to work on himself, he had such a patient and understanding attitude towards his wife when she was triggered by his driving. His response to her fear demonstrated love and a truly repentant heart. Maybe someone reading this may be able to link that video. If you need space for healing, that is what you should do. Your mental, physical, or spiritual safety is very important to God. I ended up divorced. I do not trust my ex-husband but I do care for him and pray for him daily. I am praying for his healing and his relationship with God. I cannot imagine ever trusting him again. And that’s okay. Broken trust is not controlled by what I feel but by the actions of others. I am not responsible to fix that. I am called to forgive him and pursue my relationship with God and be the best me I can be. Praying for you now.
I needed this today! I feel lost and hopeless at the moment because I have been married to man for 11 years that has been ultra controlling and cruel in words and actions. he is Mr. nice to outside world. Without writing a book, Last weekend he did something that sent me into a trauma, fight or flight mode and I decided I needed to step away and stay at my daughters house for space to mentally heal. This has ramped up his anger, he is blaming me for breaking his heart by not being home, I try to explain I do not feel safe emotionally or physically but he says he promised on a Bible that he will never do that again. I can’t just say ok and go home, but everyday the calls and messages are getting worse. If I do not go home by Saturday he will change the locks and I will not be able to get my things. I need space to heal but am not allowed to have it. He will not go to counseling because “it’s my fault”
I’m so hopeless. this article is helpful in the fact that I it tells me I am not wrong in needing space to heal. Now to get him to understand that also
Joan, please find a safe way to protect yourself! Do what’s right for you…maybe take a friend, family member, or a social worker to your home, and gather your most important records and personal items, prior to his “ deadline”? You are doing nothing wrong in taking the time, space, and protective measures you need for yourself! ❤️
I agree. I some communities, the police will accompany you to the house to get your belongings, and along with that, I would suggest a restraining order. You must be safe!
Oh my goodness. I, too, could have written this with the exception of the two daughters and add in alcoholism. There was no change in him after several years and I had to leave for my own personal safety. Now, there is a nasty divorce. : ( I am thankful to have found Conquer and I am also doing the Lysa Teurkherst study “I want to Trust You, But I Don’t.” Praying for all of us in this season of our lives. <3
Isn’t it amazing how clever we are at making excuses for these guys? Autism, ADHD, trauma in childhood, etc. etc.
Does he treat others that way? Does he treat you that way when others are watching? Do you get to use those excuses to be abusive?
About 14 years ago the Holy Spirit said to me, “No more excuses.” That’s when I started noticing how much he used excuses and how much I fell for it and even used them myself. I guess it’s a way to avoid dealing with reality.
if something I do is pointed out to me as being hurtful, I move heaven and earth to figure out what I need to change, where to get help, what books to read. He can, too. He’s just learned that being an entitled bully gets him out of it.
Absolutely!
Amen!
This is me too but I’m not sure the question was fully answered. Which is even if the person seems to be working on their problems, can trust after many repeat cycles and emotional abuse be healed? Personally in my case I feel that the trauma is too much. My body clenches around him and my health is suffering from the stress. Yes of course I’ve worked on myself for years in counseling and many other ways and don’t want a divorce but I can’t see trust healing or the relationship working .
Wow–this is my story too!!! I am in the EXACT position! He’s being the perfect Dad, helping around the house, etc. BUT I’m noticing he’s more sneaky about his baiting me to react. I’ve been doing better at seeing it and acting accordingly. He always has a valid reason for others though, so I’m not able to call him out.
Example: Sunday, the kids weren’t up for church. My daughter was home for a week, and wanted to go to late church. I agreed with her and let the kids sleep a little longer so we could all go together. My husband got upset at me for not waking them up, and wasn’t it ME who said they should be up at a certain time, and I’M not following through with what I said. When I calmly said we were going to late church because no one was on the schedule to help out for early church, he continued. When I calmly stated that there was a change of plans, and isn’t he ok with change, he digressed and went to church on his own at the regular time. One of our kids was ready and wanted to go along. Later, he told the kids there wasn’t room for all of us in one car, so he decided to go earlier. Everyone bought it…they hadn’t heard the argument earlier…. I’m seeing more clearly…. but how do you fight with someone who is so incredibly good at twisting things to fit their agenda? He’s not a safe person for me. I KNOW I shouldn’t trust him!
Dear sister! I’m so sorry for what you went through.
I know the conspiracy theories to well. I have heard so many unimaginable conspiracy theories about almost everything that touched my ex husband. I know how tiring it is to always feel treated or even trying to guess where the next treat will come from. Her is my experience, I hope it helps.
In my experience, the conspiracy theory prevents my ex to trust anyone. Therapist, doctor, pastor, postman, plumber, store cashier… Everyone is a potential treat in my ex mind. He has often told me so.
Even when he agreed to seek help (in order to conquer me back) he never really questioned himself.
Manipulation is the way he acts by default in order to prevent people from harming him.
He told me that his pastor, he knew for more than 20 years and who had helped him trough many difficulties, was payed by the state to get informations about him.
I left my ex to heal, and figured out after one a half year, with lots of confirmation, that he won’t change.
He also almost stopped sharing with me his conspiracy theories… I can’t trust someone that doesn’t trust me. In a healthy couple both people are questioning themselves. No one is perfect. He’s not doing it. That’s why I’m divorcing.
If I have one advice: Give yourself time and a lot of self-compassion! You’re worth it!
Love Sarah
Hello to all of you. I wrote the original post and I am so heartened by all of your encouragement and sorry for those of you who are in a similar situation. It is very liberating to be speaking the truth, respectfully, in the world and to have people her me. I have been so isolated (in that area of my life) for so many years. I would be surprised if my husband embraces true heart-transforming change. He has already asked me for a list of things I want him to DO (like a check list so that he say that he is doing all the right things) and insisting that sex is a major part of marriage and to cut him off from that I am punishing him. He says when our sex life is good he feels like a king (interesting choice of words!!) I am following Leslie’s advice to stay a bit longer to get stronger, strengthen my core and make a plan. I am doing this to make sure that God is fully present in all of my decisions and that my identity and allegiance is 100% anchored in Him. I am also speaking truth into my daughters whenever I can.
I agree with the eloquent post on neurodivergent thinking. There is no doubt that my husband has emotional and mental health issues and something quirky going on neurologically. Do I want more for him? Absolutely. But he must want more for himself!!! I can not diagnose that or solve it not is it my responsibility to fix it. I know that now. I can only seek health for myself and be a positive role model for my girls!
Praying that our stories are redeemed in Him and through Him and that we will all become strong enough to trade beauty for ashes!
I am honored to be on this journey with all of you!